Hornady Annealing Kit

[watercam]

Annealed some cases this morning with the Hornady Case Annealing Kit. For $50 it can't be beat. Comes with three cartridge holders covering .223, .308 and belted Magnum cases. Uses a slow turning hand drill and one propane torch. They supply 475 deg. Tempilaq which is applied 1/4" below the shoulder/case wall joint. One turns the case neck in the flame until the Tempilaq starts to melts then remove and quench (I used a wet rag to keep water out of the inside of the case). One need not quench for the annealing to work but Hornady points out that it does prevent heat from migrating down to the case head. Which is BAD Grr (Invader Zim ref. - what can I say, the kids loved it).
All in all, it was quick, easy, and very reasonably priced. Hornady also suggests tumbling for a short while after annealing to soak up water and to remove any Tempilaq that remains on the case wall.
Mike T.

 

[Yellow11]

I have looked at thus and scratched my head.

Doesn't brass anneal at 750-800F and not the 475F that the kit's Tempilaq has printed on its side - or have I missed something.

 

[15Tango]

Doesn't brass anneal at 750-800F and not the 475F that the kit's Tempilaq has printed on its side - or have I missed something.

From my reading, brass starts to change at 482 degrees F if I remember correctly. You put that stuff down on the body near the shoulder - the point that you don't want it to start changing. Everything above that you want to change. The case holders protect most of the body from the flame and the heat has to work its way down the neck and shoulder to get that body portion up to temperature, by the time that happens the neck and most of the shoulder are up to that 800 area. Not allowing the lower half of the body to reach temps above 480 degrees is key or you could have a blow out.

I practiced doing it without Hornady's tool and using another case holder in a drill and observed the case changing color, I did it the first few times with garbage brass I didn't care about. It was scary at first but I'm pretty proficient at it now and glad I learned how to do it.

Wayne

ETA: I've heard of people using simple sockets and drill attachments do perform the same function as the Hornady kit. FYI in case anybody wants to give it the college try on the cheap.

 

[RDavies]

I,m glad I saw this post. I will be getting a WSSM which apparently need occaisional annealing and was wondering about idiot proof annealing kits.

 

[bozo699]

Geronimo Jim,
You do that, don't let go until you see the neck start to change color
Wayne.

 

[Wirelessguy2005]

There is another company that makes an annealing tool kit that is better than the Hornady kit. The tools hold the brass by the primer pocket for a much better fit versus the universal holders that hornady uses. The tools are made by Custom Reloading Tools. The custom reloading tools kit is also less expensive than the Hornady kit. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Moderator]

The Tempilaq Hornady supplies has too low of a temp range. They know it. They do this so that you don't over anneal the case. Problem is, you're probably not doing any good at all.

Time + Temp are critical. Badly annealed cases can be dangerous. If you are thinking of getting into the annealing game, you really need to consider spending the money to get a unit that controls time + temp precisely.

 

[watercam]

Well, followed the directions of a very reputable manufacturer/bullet maker/case maker/ammunition maker to the letter. I'll call and ask them but it seems that 475 deg. @ .25" below the shoulder/wall joint would make the neck quite a bit hotter. Sure spit enough when quenched!
So long as the case heads are not damaged we will see how these cases hold up compared to those that are not annealed. Frankly I have had Lapua cases crack after three loadings hence the experiment in finding a solution.
Just not interested in spending $400 for an annealing machine folks, sorry!
Mike T.

 

[260Ravage]

I agree with Moderator. I use 650 deg. crayon 3/8" below the shoulder on my .308 bolt face cases.

 

[dantiff2]

Here is a video that shows exactly how it's done.... High temp on the neck and low temp on the body. You do NOT want the body over 600 degrees !!!

The molecular structure starts to change somewhere after 475 so there is a good chance the body might fail if heated over that point. The exception is on a long case where the heat does not draw too far down the case. But on something short like ppc or br brass, better safe than sorry. ;D



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uasv-Pyxu4g&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Dan

 

[clannagael]

I'm curious - How long does it take to anneal, say, 200 rounds?

 

[Yellow11]

The critical time and temperature at which the grain structure reforms into something suitable for case necks is 662 degrees (F) for some 15 minutes. A higher temperature, say from 750 to 800 degrees, will do the same job in a few seconds. If brass is allowed to reach temperatures higher than this (regardless of the time), it will be made irretrievably and irrevocably too soft.

Brass will begin to glow a faint orange at about 950 degrees (F). Even if the heating is stopped at a couple of hundred degrees below this temperature, the damage has been done--it will be too soft. From this discussion we can see that there are four considerations concerning time and temperature:

1. Due to conduction, the amount of heat necessary to sufficiently anneal the case neck is great enough to ruin the rest of the case.

A search through annealing articles on this site provided a time/temperature yard stick - see above.

Therefore I stand by my original head scratching that the temperature of the lacquer needs to be higher. Unless you reach the required temperature you will not do anything to the condition of the brass - there is no such thing as part annealed :-X

I allow 6 second, using induction heating and 750F lacquer.

 

[watercam]

Having spoken to Hornady regarding the concerns of some responding to this thread they assured me that they tested extensively on a variety of cartridge cases and the Tempilaq they provide is correct. After annealing, reloading and shooting some 200-300 rounds since day one, everything seems in order. They size more easily and aren't cracking as I have had happen with Lapua cases after three or son firings. Only thing I do differently than written instructions is use a wet rag to wipe off melted Tempilaq/semi-quench case neck before dumping them into my tumbler.

 

[BoydAllen]

In setting up an annealing machine, that pauses the case in the flames of two butane torches, a friend and I initially put parallel stripes, from the outside corner of a test case's shoulder, down the length of the case, to the head. We used 300, 400 and 500 degree Templaq. This allowed us to see what was going on with the heat moving down the case. At the end of our testing on 7mmWSM brass (that was suffering from excessive variation in shoulder bump) we settled on the standard of having the 500 degree material melt to a point that was about 3/8" down from the point of the shoulder. This solved the variance in shoulder bump problem, reducing it to +-.0005 or so. I think that some of the confusion on this subject is due to the use of the word anneal. We did not want to produce fully annealed necks, but some modification of the properties of the brass is possible at a lower temperature than that cited for full annealing.

Many years ago, I tried the old stand up cases in a pie pan partially filled with water and heating the necks until they glowed faintly in a dark room method. While the cases were safe to shoot,the necks were too soft. Ken Light speaks to this point very well, and his take on what is appropriate is the same as mine. If you heat a case neck till it glows, you have gotten it too hot, and it will be too soft. I think that the temperature of the material that Hornady furnishes could be useful, if it was applied to the right part of the case. It might be a little cool for the neck, but running down from the shoulder I think that it would work.

 

[jonbearman]

I bought a benchsource and annealing is easy and you can do so many cases it is hard to keep up! LOL I simply love the machine.

 

[Elwood]

The critical time and temperature at which the grain structure reforms into something suitable for case necks is 662 degrees (F) for some 15 minutes. A higher temperature, say from 750 to 800 degrees, will do the same job in a few seconds. If brass is allowed to reach temperatures higher than this (regardless of the time), it will be made irretrievably and irrevocably too soft.

Brass will begin to glow a faint orange at about 950 degrees (F). Even if the heating is stopped at a couple of hundred degrees below this temperature, the damage has been done--it will be too soft. From this discussion we can see that there are four considerations concerning time and temperature:

1. Due to conduction, the amount of heat necessary to sufficiently anneal the case neck is great enough to ruin the rest of the case.

A search through annealing articles on this site provided a time/temperature yard stick - see above.

Therefore I stand by my original head scratching that the temperature of the lacquer needs to be higher. Unless you reach the required temperature you will not do anything to the condition of the brass - there is no such thing as part annealed :-X

I allow 6 second, using induction heating and 750F lacquer.

Hi John, just to clear this up for you. The 475 F Tempilaq is applied roughly 1/4 inch below the case wall and shoulder junction, so as the heat runs down the case wall the Tempilaq indicates the temperature.
As I understand it heat takes the quickest and shortest route and with brass being a good heat conductor the heat runs to the case mouth first and then back down the neck/shoulder and case wall, so when the 475 F Tempilaq on the wall changes supposedly the neck has hit the desired 750/800F.

We must catch up at Bisley soon, no doubt we both have new toys.


Ian