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Hornady 105gr AMAX, some data, some questions

I had read mixed reviews of the Hornady 105gr amax, and didn't want to order a 1k or more before doing some research, so I just bought a box of 100 105s to collect some data (lot# 2111419).
One of the complaints that I had read was that weights were all over the place with over a grain of variation.
Secondly, I had read that the boat tails had defects (approx. 25% according to one review), which could obviously manifest in point of impact shifts.
Lastly the next most common complaint was that the bearing surface Lengths were all over the map, the complaints weren't much more specific than that.

So I weighed each bullet (my weigh i201 scale, not the best, but pretty accurate with the fluorescent lights turned off) in the box with the following results;
105.2gr- 2
105.1gr- 23
105.0gr- 29
104.9gr- 44
104.8- 2
104.7- 1
I was a little skeptical about the 104.8 and 104.7 tips, and set them aside to re-weigh several times with other tips in between, but got the same results each time.

I also used my old and trusty Stoney Point tool to measure, what I would figure would be, the length to ogive, and after measuring 40 of them I stopped (it was time for dinner). All measurements were between .6995" and .7015", with the a preponderance (34 of 40)of them measuring .7000.

Lastly, I did a completely unscientific, visual inspection, of the 40 tips that I measured, and could find no defects in the boat tail section of the bullet, or any other part of the bullet for that matter, but I was mostly concerned with the boat tail section. These particular tips were packaged in a plastic bag inside the box, something I haven't seen in other sizes of Hornady bullets that I have bought.

So the questions that I am left to ask myself are;

Does any of this mean anything since the sample size was so small?

Would such insignificant deltas in bullet weight make any difference, especially if you tossed the 5 total tips that were not within 3/10s of a grain? They did include 102 tips in the box, for what it's worth.

How much difference in bearing surface length would there need to be before it makes a difference? Obviously the farther away you shoot, the more you would notice any small change, but how many rifles are accurate enough to prove this?

I wish that I had more accurate and complex equipment to do a more detailed analysis (maybe a spin balancer), but from what I can tell, and what I think my rifle will notice, this box appears to be pretty good.


Well, thanks for reading. Does any one have any thoughts, recommendations, or other opinions on any of the information or answers to the questions above?
 
I have shot thousands of the hornady 105s on PD trips and find them to shoot better than any other mass produced bullet in most barrels. I have had a couple of barrels that shot the sierras better, but not by much. The latest thing is the 105 Berger hybrid, which is doing as well or better than the hornady. I have not tried any custom VLD 105s. The gun I built that shot the hornady 105 best promptly went to Wyoming and made a PD kill at 1071 yards first time out in about 30 rounds. The post about that can be found in the archives on this site.
 
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a555976.pdf

Have a look at out paper linked above, "Comparing Measured Bullet Weight with Manufacturer Specifications." We measured the bullet weights of many boxes of bullets and the appendix records the variations for lots of brands and bullet weights.

Berger tends to have smaller variations in mass compared with other manufacturers, but in general, the plastic tipped designs of companies like Hornady and Nosler tend to have smaller variation in ballistic coefficient than the hollow point designs of Berger.

I prefer the plastic tipped designs for the more consistent BC and the more reliable expansion, especially at reduced velocities of long range.
 
I have shot a couple thousand of the 105's through 2 different 6mm Turbo 40 AR uppers in NRA Highpower competition and they have always delivered excellent results, through several different lots of bullets. When I initially started load testing for this caliber at 600 yards I tried the A-max, the 107 SMK, and the 105 Berger VLD. The A-Max and the VLD both performed equally well and the SMK was just a hair behind as far as group size. For the price difference, the A-max was a no-brainer for me. I have shot cleans with high X count at 500 and 600 yards with this bullet. I have never bothered to weigh or measure anything about them.

I've recently started playing with the 105 Hybrid and have found that it is indeed better in the wind and it shoots a little tighter. For the extra cost, I don't feel that they are worth it for my type of shooting in most circumstances. I do keep some loaded as a "secret weapon" for really windy days or important matches, like Camp Perry next week. For normal conditions and matches the A-Max is plenty good and I have about 4 seasons' worth on hand.

I shot a match a month or so ago and got to shoot 2 prone slow fire strings(300 yards on MR63 target, 600 yd HP target reduced for 300yd) in the exact same wind condition so I decided to try each load for 1 string. Scores were 200-9x with the Hornady and 199-13x for the Hybrids. I was pretty satisfied with both scores.

Regards,
Erik
 
I apparently have found the opposite as some in that my amaxs shoot better in virtually all my guns vs the Berger and they seem to need a lot less fine tuning. I find the Berger to be a fine bullet but it is much more finicky. For the price and everything else to me the amax may be the finest all round do anything bullet. I used to start all my guns with the Berger then when I got it as good I could I would just switch to the Amax and almost always shrink up my best berger load.
 
djtjr said:
I apparently have found the opposite as some in that my amaxs shoot better in virtually all my guns vs the Berger and they seem to need a lot less fine tuning. I find the Berger to be a fine bullet but it is much more finicky. For the price and everything else to me the amax may be the finest all round do anything bullet. I used to start all my guns with the Berger then when I got it as good I could I would just switch to the Amax and almost always shrink up my best berger load.

I know im going to catch flack for saying this but ive done the same thing with the vmax...i started looking thru all my data over the years and noticed my loads with vmax bullets performed the best...better than bergers? In my rifles it has been.
 
They shoot like crap for me.

I alsO noticed that with my Wilson seater they seat all over the place. The Smk seats within a half a thou. The hornady is a total crap shoot. I suspect this may be a problem. The Wilson seater may no like the very long skinny nose of the Amax. The Wikson dies seem to work best with more round nosed bulkets.

I know this.

The loads that shoot at velocity with the SMK will not shoot with the Hornady,
 
The 105 A-max is a great bullet for me personally. And now is even better with the AMP jackets.

Regards, Paul

www.boltfluting.com
 
Does anybody know what the maximum speed in an 8 twist barrel is for the 105 AMax before it flies apart?
I may have had two or three go "poof" today. My best guess for velocity would be just shy of 3200 fps.
 
My 243 WSSM (that I have sold) shot them at 3250 MV. Almost all made it to the target, but I know of one for certain that went 'poof' at about 50 yards.
 
Nomad47 said:
My 243 WSSM (that I have sold) shot them at 3250 MV. Almost all made it to the target, but I know of one for certain that went 'poof' at about 50 yards.
Yea, thats is what I am doing but I'm going back to just over 3000 in my WSSM's. I think I start to see the brass problems at the 3200 marker.

P.S. Bill, Going to the Dasher soon. Then the 6SLR or 6CM if the Dasher is not the Holy Grail.
 
Let your gun be the test of the Amax. I have a heavy Krieger-barreled A/R that shoots the 52 Amax in the 2's (and occasional 3's) all day in calm conditions. No bullet sorting, weighing, etc. I thought hey...the Amaxes would be great for practice in my 7mm mag and 6BR. Turns out both guns are allergic to the Amaxes and I did buy a bunch - regrettably. Don't worry too much about the bearing surface deviations too much. I have measured the bearing surfaces on many bullets and found some (like Barnes Varmint Grenades) to have outragious deviation which I was sure to create paramount accuracy problems. Turned out I was wrong. I'd segregate long-range target bullets regardless of commercial maker.
 

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