Hopewell Method-which group

[Ccrider]

Figure I might start a dumpster fire, but would like opinions.

From left to right these are ten shot groups (2 shots then increase 25 clicks) from 0-100, 100-200, 200-300, 300-400 and 400-500. Which group would you choose to fine toluene from?

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Figure I might start a dumpster fire, but would like opinions.

From left to right these are ten shot groups (2 shots then increase 25 clicks) from 0-100, 100-200, 200-300, 300-400 and 400-500. Which group would you choose to fine toluene from?

View attachment 1369946

Use smaller increments. I turn the tuner all the way in even if it is past the zero on the scale and start at what I call the true zero then only adjust 5 clicks at a time the reason for this if you go 25 clicks there is a good chance within those 25 clicks is the setting you are looking for.

Lee

 

[linekin]

I agree with Lee, try smaller adjustments. Also pay attention to the vertical shift as you shoot. You'll see high/low groups form. You'll see good groups in both. From all I'd read the upward swing is where you want to be. OMMV
Don't stop when you find the 1st great group, just note it down & continue to see the wave. Once you've found something close try a different lot to confirm & go back another day & do the same & see if its repeatable.

 

[R.Morehouse]

Too many shots. Maybe too large of adjustments. With the tuner I use ( Ezell) with the one hole shooting 6ppc I move it one number at a time. Once I have it figured out, sometimes only a half if the weather/sighters calls for it. But maybe your tuner has much finer adjustments than mine.......Best of luck.

Regards
Rick

 

[DaWhit]

Article I read, pick the one with the least vertical spread.

 

[VLNBYR]

Each setting needs it's own group.

 

[MrG52D]

Figure I might start a dumpster fire, but would like opinions.

From left to right these are ten shot groups (2 shots then increase 25 clicks) from 0-100, 100-200, 200-300, 300-400 and 400-500. Which group would you choose to fine toluene from?

View attachment 1369946

I would most likely explore group # 4. Has less vertical and horizontal.

 

[Ccrider]

Below is a link that explains the Hopewell Method. I decided to try it to see how effective it is at getting to the correct setting. The first and fourth group have very similar vertical. At zero and 25, the shots went into the same hole (.0 4 shot group). I was tempted to stop and explore there but wanted to finish the process.

As suggested, I will explore group 4 first.

THE HOPEWELL METHOD OF BARREL TUNING

Comments by Guy Starik" The tuner is a weight which can be precisely position by minute steps, allowing you to find the “Sweet Spot” of...

newbrunswick-benchrest.blogspot.com

 

[VLNBYR]

Why would you not explore zero and 25 first if they put 4 shots into the same hole?

 

[Ccrider]

Why would you not explore zero and 25 first if they put 4 shots into the same hole?

That is what my gut reaction is. But the fourth group which includes 2 shots at 400, 2 shots at 425, 2 at 450, 2 at 475 and 2 at 500 had the same vertical as the first and was much tighter horizontally. Of course, the method says to test at the group with the least vertical.

 

[JMayo]

1st one.

 

[wkdickinson]

Use smaller increments. I turn the tuner all the way in even if it is past the zero on the scale and start at what I call the true zero then only adjust 5 clicks at a time the reason for this if you go 25 clicks there is a good chance within those 25 clicks is the setting you are looking for.

Lee

Lee has kind of been my mentor with regard to tuning (and lots of other stuff - he has an amazing amount of knowledge and is VERY generous in sharing it). I just put together a new RF repeater w/a Shilen "ratchet" barrel. It shot pretty good without a tuner, using a lot of Lapua CX I bought for my 1413. But I have a standard Harrel's tuner and no rifle for it, so last week I decided to put it on this new rifle. I started from "physical" zero (which actually was 5 or -20 graduations below "ruled 0"). I shot 3-shot groups and moved the tuner 5 graduation per groups. Within 5 groups, I found a "tune"! Moved up another 5 and it went away, moved back down 5 below and it went away, went back and shot 2 more groups and was extremely pleased.

I have tried the "Hopewell" method and think it is a total waste of ammo and time!

 

[TrxR]

I got to do this myself . What's everyone's recommended method? Is the Hopewell the preferred?

 

[PNW Skipper]

Kind of an obvious question, but did you check the target alignment with a level before shooting? 1, 2, and 4 are fairly close in apparent vertical spread, but if the targets were not perfectly plumb, the order between them could change.

 

[Ccrider]

Kind of an obvious question, but did you check the target alignment with a level before shooting? 1, 2, and 4 are fairly close in apparent vertical spread, but if the targets were not perfectly plumb, the order between them could change.

Neat point. The target was not perfectly plumb. I normally level the target but did not yesterday.

 

[linekin]

[QUOTE
I have tried the "Hopewell" method and think it is a total waste of ammo and time!
[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't argue in that you will find a decent tune in about every revolution of a Harrell's tuner. The question is it the best one. Thats where its worth doing .
Admittedly, I don't use it either. We all have our preferences as to where we like to "live" with it. Lee likes them light & has said he liked at least in the past to be on the low end of the tuner. I like them between 150-200. You see some incredible shooting rifles with all kinds of crap screwed onto them.
Bottom line, you can find a tune at many different settings.
I mentioned above the sine wave thing I did earlier this year. I'll never try tuning a rifle again without doing it as I think since I've done my rifles more consistent. I believe in the past I've seen small groups & thought it was a good tune but not at the top of the swing. I'm comfortable moving my tuner in the past & since I've done that test I haven't needed to touch it again & have been more consistent each outing. Just sayin'

 

[TrxR]

[QUOTE
I have tried the "Hopewell" method and think it is a total waste of ammo and time!

I wouldn't argue in that you will find a decent tune in about every revolution of a Harrell's tuner. The question is it the best one. Thats where its worth doing .
Admittedly, I don't use it either. We all have our preferences as to where we like to "live" with it. Lee likes them light & has said he liked at least in the past to be on the low end of the tuner. I like them between 150-200. You see some incredible shooting rifles with all kinds of crap screwed onto them.
Bottom line, you can find a tune at many different settings.
I mentioned above the sine wave thing I did earlier this year. I'll never try tuning a rifle again without doing it as I think since I've done my rifles more consistent. I believe in the past I've seen small groups & thought it was a good tune but not at the top of the swing. I'm comfortable moving my tuner in the past & since I've done that test I haven't needed to touch it again & have been more consistent each outing. Just sayin'
[/QUOTE]
So as you move your tuner you will see the poi move up and down and your looking for the best high group? How many shot per setting and how many clicks between settings on the tuner?

I've got a harrels tuner I need to test and also have their heavy weight but am thinking I should go without the weight.

 

[linekin]

I wouldn't argue in that you will find a decent tune in about every revolution of a Harrell's tuner. The question is it the best one. Thats where its worth doing .
Admittedly, I don't use it either. We all have our preferences as to where we like to "live" with it. Lee likes them light & has said he liked at least in the past to be on the low end of the tuner. I like them between 150-200. You see some incredible shooting rifles with all kinds of crap screwed onto them.
Bottom line, you can find a tune at many different settings.
I mentioned above the sine wave thing I did earlier this year. I'll never try tuning a rifle again without doing it as I think since I've done my rifles more consistent. I believe in the past I've seen small groups & thought it was a good tune but not at the top of the swing. I'm comfortable moving my tuner in the past & since I've done that test I haven't needed to touch it again & have been more consistent each outing. Just sayin'

So as you move your tuner you will see the poi move up and down and your looking for the best high group? How many shot per setting and how many clicks between settings on the tuner?

I've got a harrels tuner I need to test and also have their heavy weight but am thinking I should go without the weight.
[/QUOTE]


Yes, below is a pic that shows it & if you rotate the tuner 2 or 3 clicks at a time through a complete revolution, wherever you start you'll see it. I shot 3 at each setting but you can do however many you want. I'm cheap, lol
I initially settled on 185 but went to a match where it wasn't the same shooting rifle & went out to 188. Haven't touched it since, & thats rare for me.
I would try it without the weight 1st but to each their own. Go thru the above both bare & with the weight & see if you can see a difference is all I can say. Its all trial & error.

 

[linekin]

By the way I picked up this sine wave thing from Mike, but either I didn't interpret it right or the way I did it was confusing to him. In any case, in my mind it worked. Thanks MIke!
Some will do a slow speed/fast speed test & see when the 2 groups come together with excellent results. I've never tried it but had my butt handed to me by it many times.
Another way to skin a cat....

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

[QUOTE
I have tried the "Hopewell" method and think it is a total waste of ammo and time!

I wouldn't argue in that you will find a decent tune in about every revolution of a Harrell's tuner. The question is it the best one. Thats where its worth doing .
Admittedly, I don't use it either. We all have our preferences as to where we like to "live" with it. Lee likes them light & has said he liked at least in the past to be on the low end of the tuner. I like them between 150-200. You see some incredible shooting rifles with all kinds of crap screwed onto them.
Bottom line, you can find a tune at many different settings.
I mentioned above the sine wave thing I did earlier this year. I'll never try tuning a rifle again without doing it as I think since I've done my rifles more consistent. I believe in the past I've seen small groups & thought it was a good tune but not at the top of the swing. I'm comfortable moving my tuner in the past & since I've done that test I haven't needed to touch it again & have been more consistent each outing. Just sayin'
[/QUOTE]

Keith, glad you were able to find what I have been seeing. I don't know how cool of weather you shoot in but that is where you will see if that setting is truly the one and only. since cooler temperatures lower velocity if your POI doesn't change to a point where you get concerned you got it.

Lee