Holdover question -- Click vs. Reticle Marks?

[CA_Shooter]

I have a RPR in 6.5 too. Great rifle to learn distance with.

If you are looking to do hold overs, you can use your scope hash marks as a ruler with a FFP (first focal plane) scope.

I use turrets and hold overs depending on how precise or the amount of time I have

 

[JimT]

If the scope is made in China I prefer to dial since I am assured of precision adjustments. I’m not so sure of non-Chinese manufactured scopes. I base my opinion on the fact that many Americans prefer a man made Chinese virus to an American vaccine.

 

[BoydAllen]

Try it both ways and do what works the best for you.

 

[ckaberna]

Need your address so I can send you a check !!

How about becoming a paid member now that you have all this free advice?
I agree with above, try both and do what works “for you”

 

[CarlGeorge]

What is "preferred" depends on what you know, what you WANT to know (i.e. learn), the kind of shooting you're doing and, ultimately, what feels most natural to you.

My path into long range started with shooting at a High Power Silhouette range (recreational shooting.....not competition). I bought a scope with "internal" turrets (i.e. to adjust a cover had to be taken off and a coin or screwdriver had to be used to adjust) and a bullet-drop-compensating reticle. I learned the hold-over reticle tick marks for each target distance, and I could pretty much shoot where I wanted just by using the reticle. But I quickly learned it wasn't that precise, and if I loaded a different bullet different hash marks were required for each distance. This setup allowed me to be somewhat proficient.....but I didn't really understand MOA, etc.

I "upgraded" to a scope with external turrets and invested the time to understand MOA (or MIL if that's your bag), bullet drop, etc. etc. etc. Now I look at a ballistics app, figure out how much I have to come up, and dial it in. My knowledge has gotten much deeper and it's also more precise.

I don't *actually* shoot F-Class yet (however I'll be shooting my first official match Oct 3! Woot!) but my scope now is a simple crosshair - and I intend to use the target rings as my MOA markers for windage adjustments.....dialing in windage if it's strong enough that I would need to hold "off the target".

 

[Spike A]

My first question would be what optic… if it is reliable tracking then like many have said above I’m a dial elevation and hold wind… now that being said if I’m hunting let’s say wood chucks i know most of my guns drops at 200… and I will hold as it’s only a few inches… easy to guess.. now if it’s 300yds out and let’s say my xc I know it’s roughly 2.5 moa drop… than throw in an 8mph cross wind.. you could end up off in lala land and my personal feeling is accuracy then goes out the window… I know if I dial 2.5 moa .. and I have to hold let’s say 8”… I feel it’s easier to manage….just have to remember about scope magnification if it’s not a ffp scope….

I started out using a cheaper non dialable scope with plain cross hairs on a 22-250… try to shoot one at 400 with a decent wind … gets difficult to guess measurements… learned quickly a decent scope is worth it…

 

[tsyarnall]

Welcome to our “Crew” and congratulations on the RPR. You’ll have lots of fun with it. And, enjoy the hours upon hours of reading that you have at your disposal. For any questions, don’t hesitate to ask. That’s how all of us learn.

Scott Y

 

[Rook 6]

Welcome to the forum! I can only re-hash what's been said about personal preference after learning both methods. I have found I use clicks for fixed distance shooting and holdover for variable distance with limited time for the shot. Enjoy learning what works best for you! One of the things I love about this hobby is that you never stop learning. This from someone who has shot competitively for almost 50 years. You can even learn things from relative newbies!

 

[Fairchaser]

The reticle subtensions are only accurate on a FFP scope or SFP at a maximum or predetermined magnification setting. Adjusting the turrets for drop IMO is the best method and easier to memorize drop in MOA for various distances than which sub tensions to use for what distance at which magnification setting.

 

[KY_Windage]

I don't *actually* shoot F-Class yet (however I'll be shooting my first official match Oct 3! Woot!) but my scope now is a simple crosshair - and I intend to use the target rings as my MOA markers for windage adjustments.....dialing in windage if it's strong enough that I would need to hold "off the target".

Electronic targets are such a vast improvement compared to having to go down and pull, score and mark paper targets that within a couple of years I doubt you will have more than a tiny fraction of F-Class matches being shot on paper. And an electronic target makes your fancy hashmarks useless.

 

[std7mag]

Depends.

At a match i'll use turrets for elevation, hash for windage.

For hunting i use holdover.

 

[miningshawn]

I also shoot RPR's (308 & 223) and I shoot PRS. Here is a typical scenario:

Stage X is 10 shots, two shots at target 1 from on top of the tank trap, target is 560 yards. Two shots at target 2 from the center of the tank trap at target 2, target is at 820 yards. Repeat target 1. Repeat target 2. Last two shots are at target 3 from prone under the tank trap, target is at 640 yards.

Sounds easy until you try it. 3 minutes is not long to get hits on targets at that range. I will typically set "0" at 560 yards, give a swag on windage, coriolis and spin drift to set a windage left/right, and use smaller holdovers for 640 and 820. I have the drops written on a dope card attached to my rifle or my arm. If I have time I will switch the turrets, if I do not (typically) I use holdovers.

I use Strelok Pro to store my holdovers, but you will never have time in competition to consult a ballistics device. All of your setup happens before the stage starts.

If this is your only rifle then you can memorize most of your drops, but it is not advisable to try running from memory on the clock.

Things start to get a little complicated at 600 yards. At that distance you really want high magnification and a lot of your hash marks are near the very bottom of the field of view. Your eye, whether you like it or not, really wants to focus on the center of the crosshairs. Down past 8MOA or 3 mils the reticle subtensions may start to work against you.

Summary: run the turrets when you can, set a new "0" POI when you can't and get most of your targets near the center of the scope. Try to use the least subtension possible.

 

[garandman]

Learn both.

Personally, I prefer holdover, but in my guns (target only, no hunting use) that only gets me to about 700 yards. Beyond 700, I gotta dial. Holdover is obviously faster. Once you get comfortable with the particulars of your gun / scope combo, the right answer *for you* will become apparent. A 200 yard zero could help also.

Happy shooting.

 

[mike a]

3 shots each 200, 300, 400 and 500. Range it, hold it, shoot it.

 

[garandman]

The reticle subtensions are only accurate on a FFP scope or SFP at a maximum or predetermined magnification setting. Adjusting the turrets for drop IMO is the best method and easier to memorize drop in MOA for various distances than which sub tensions to use for what distance at which magnification setting.

You are correct about when / where subtensions are accurate on FFP / SFP glass. (Ask me how I know this.)

I don't beleive this inherently makes dialing easier to memorize. Memorizing # of subtensions to hold is no harder than memorizing the # of clicks to dial. And the shorttest pencil on paper always beats the longest memory.

And in every case, if you got sufficient holdover range, holdover is always quicker.

 

[kuraki]

You are correct about when / where subtensions are accurate on FFP / SFP glass. (Ask me how I know this.)

I don't beleive this inherently makes dialing easier to memorize. Memorizing # of subtensions to hold is no harder than memorizing the # of clicks to dial. And the shorttest pencil on paper always beats the longest memory.

And in every case, if you got sufficient holdover range, holdover is always quicker.

It is easier to document on a dope card though. A little grid of range and moa/mil values vs an image of the reticle.

 

[garandman]

It is easier to document on a dope card though. A little grid of range and moa/mil values vs an image of the reticle.

Not an image... a number... of subtensions.

Number of clicks or number of subtensions… numbers are numbers... simply knowing the number of subtensions to hold over for the distance to target is always quicker than dialing.



"image of the reticle" … lol..... We are not ancient Egyptians here using hieroglyphics… lol...

 

[kuraki]

It's a great plan if you have 1 or 2 scopes or common reticles I guess.

 

[Mauser06]

I scanned through the replies. One thing I didn't see.....


Good luck getting most lower to mid range scopes to dial and track right. I just had a scope crap out before a club match. I knew it was likely to happen. Lesser scopes just don't seem to hold up well to turret twistin.



Really depends what you are doing with the rifle. I'm learning still. I'm a steel shooter on the tactical/practical side. I'm learning to dial elevation and hold wind. But can hold elevation just as easy if needed. Under a clock, it might be easier/quicker to hold for a miss or multiple varying distance targets. Or, could be faster/easier to dial. Just depends on you and your setup. A useful clean tree style reticle can be beneficial. Some love them. Some hate them. But even if you dial, you can measure your misses with the tree and dial more precisely and not guess.


Tactical/PRS/NRL, mil/mil is most popular. Paper guys like MOA probably because the score rings are MOA. It's huge to be able to talk the same language. I was the only one with MOA till now. Talking in mils had me going nuts. When they'd see me cranking my turret they freaked out till they realized I was in MOA and need 27moa to 1k not 8 or 9mil or whatever they need.

Tactical/PRS/NRL FFP is also favored so the reticle can always be used. Like was mentioned, with a SFP, the magnification is specific to a certain zoom for the reticle to be right.


Lots of factors.