Help With New Dies Please

[686 Shooter]

I have been reloading for years but have decided to try to up my game accuracy wise. I decided to treat myself to Forster micrometer adjustable seating dies and their full length sizing dies for my 223, 308, and 6.5 Creedmoor. Up to this point I have always used Lee dies, and I am still using the Lee Breach Lock Challenger press and the Lee shell holders.

Today I went to set up the Forster full length sizing die. I used Hornady's head space bushings to measure a piece of brass that was three times fired in my rifle and neck sized only with a Lee collet neck sizing die. I then adjusted the Forster die as per their instructions, turn the die until it touches the shell holder then another 1/8 turn. Then I ran a piece of brass through and measured to see where the shoulder was at. It was .0015" longer than before sizing. I thought I had made an error so I measured another piece of brass, sized, then measured again. And again it is .0015" longer than before sizing.

So now I am at a loss. With the Lee dies I full length sized so the shoulder was bumped back .002". But with the Forster I cant get the shoulder bumped back at all. In fact its .0015" longer. I cant adjust the Forster down any further as it is touching the shell holder!

Am I missing something? I'll admit I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer at times. Is it perhaps the Lee shell holder not letting the case go far enough into the Forster die? That's the only thing I can think of.

Any help you all can give me will be greatly appreciated.

 

[JFrank]

Ensure the Lee shell holder has a deck height of .125
Ensure your newly sized case will chamber freely, perhaps your previous.002 bump was errant
If not-
You can also cam over slightly by turning your die down another thousand.
Does this occur with all of your calibers

 

[Pwc]

Are you measuring case head to actual shoulder or case head to SAAMI datum point, or case head to the end of the case?

 

[gman47564]

try screwing the die down another 1/4 turn and see if it shortens your case... if it doesn't you may have to try another shell holder... their not all created equal...

 

[Bill Rodolph]

All things manufactured have tolerances. Dies and shell holders are no exception. Your combination of shell holder and die isn't working, the interference just doesn't let the case go all the way in the die and the reason that it is longer is that squeezing the sides of the case down lengthens the case and then it needs to have the shoulder bumped back. A different shell holder is all it might take. I have taken a few thousandths off of the bottom of the die or use a surface grinder to take a few off of the top of the shell holder. Either way, the idea is to get the case a little farther into the die.

 

[SLuke]

It’s been my experience that if you don’t have the die screwed in enough and there isn’t contact on the shoulders the case will grow in length as you size/shrink the body in diameter.

I would slowly work the die down and take measurements along the way. For the first few tries you won’t see any more growth, but if you keep going in small increments the shoulders will eventually make contact in the die and you’ll see them start to go the other way.

After post edit: I didn’t fully read the original post where the poster stated he is making contact against the shell holder. The other posters ideas about the shell holder height are more than likely the right solution.

 

[Sandstorm]

Had the same problem with a Forster 6.5x47 die & and a Lee shell holder,.. ended up using a few different shell holders till I found the right combination.
Im any case that worked for me however my custom chamber was still on the tight side, so I shipped some fired brass to Whidden
and had a custom die worked up. For me this ended up being the right decision. You my friend however probly wont have to go that far,
and a new shell holder should work just fine.

 

[Ringostar]

As mentioned, trying different shell holders might take care of it. Also mentioned was that you might need to grind a little off the top of a shell holder. As Jim mentioned, check to see if a case sized to this new length will chamber as is. Now I will add, when you run a case into your die. Look to see if the die is still making full contact with the shell holder. I say this because your challenger press is made of aluminum vs cast iron. The top bridge of your press might flex a little, and leave a gap.

 

[Ralph Littlefield]

I'm sure you have checked this, but I will throw it out anyway: Have you checked to make sure there is no debris on the shell holder or die?

 

[gman47564]

To the op.. your brass isnt ruined.. screw the die in a little more and if it doesnt start to bump your shoulder back then get a different shell holder.. to say a lee collet die can ruin brass is ridiculous..

 

[rammac]

Are you measuring case head to actual shoulder or case head to SAAMI datum point, or case head to the end of the case?

What?
Man, you seem to like to confuse people, your other post about COAL was just as cryptic and valueless. Fist of all the OP said he used a Hornady headspace bushing, if you know what that is then you'd know that it measures at the SAAMI shoulder datum, in fact all headspace tools for bottleneck cartridges use the shoulder datum so why ask. Secondly, oh who cares, "actual shoulder"??

 

[Bc'z]

Grind a few thousandths off bottom of die.
The top of the die is the business end removing material from the bottom isn't going to hurt its function.

 

[686 Shooter]

Thanks for all your input everyone. This sight and its members great!

I agree gman, I don't think my brass is ruined either.

I did take a couple of thousandths off the top of the shell holder. This is giving me roughly the same measurement as the pre-sized brass. It seems to chamber in my rifle fine so I think I will go with that for now. Its funny though the Forster die seems to leave slight scratches in the brass. Can't feel them but can see them. I have cleaned the hell out of both the die and my brass (wet tumble with stainless pins) and inspected the inside of the die with my borescope and it looks perfect. So who the heck knows. Sometimes this hobby is more frustrating than my job. Lol.

I am also going to order a Forster coax press and get away from the Lee press for reloading altogether. the Lee will still be good for de-caping and other such chores. The Forster will eliminate any shell holder hassles.

 

[hoz53]

Thanks for all your input everyone. This sight and its members great!

I agree gman, I don't think my brass is ruined either.

I did take a couple of thousandths off the top of the shell holder. This is giving me roughly the same measurement as the pre-sized brass. It seems to chamber in my rifle fine so I think I will go with that for now. Its funny though the Forster die seems to leave slight scratches in the brass. Can't feel them but can see them. I have cleaned the hell out of both the die and my brass (wet tumble with stainless pins) and inspected the inside of the die with my borescope and it looks perfect. So who the heck knows. Sometimes this hobby is more frustrating than my job. Lol.

I am also going to order a Forster coax press and get away from the Lee press for reloading altogether. the Lee will still be good for de-caping and other such chores. The Forster will eliminate any shell holder hassles.

most presses do flex and like ringo said a press that flex's less is better IMO. In my experience with the coax I havent always been able to run my dies in as far as i want either. the jaws will keep a person from screwing the dies down all that much farther than a std. shell holder.

 

[Richard Coody]

I have been reloading for years but have decided to try to up my game accuracy wise. I decided to treat myself to Forster micrometer adjustable seating dies and their full length sizing dies for my 223, 308, and 6.5 Creedmoor. Up to this point I have always used Lee dies, and I am still using the Lee Breach Lock Challenger press and the Lee shell holders.

Today I went to set up the Forster full length sizing die. I used Hornady's head space bushings to measure a piece of brass that was three times fired in my rifle and neck sized only with a Lee collet neck sizing die. I then adjusted the Forster die as per their instructions, turn the die until it touches the shell holder then another 1/8 turn. Then I ran a piece of brass through and measured to see where the shoulder was at. It was .0015" longer than before sizing. I thought I had made an error so I measured another piece of brass, sized, then measured again. And again it is .0015" longer than before sizing.

So now I am at a loss. With the Lee dies I full length sized so the shoulder was bumped back .002". But with the Forster I cant get the shoulder bumped back at all. In fact its .0015" longer. I cant adjust the Forster down any further as it is touching the shell holder!

Am I missing something? I'll admit I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer at times. Is it perhaps the Lee shell holder not letting the case go far enough into the Forster die? That's the only thing I can think of.

Any help you all can give me will be greatly appreciated.

Lots of good.advice here.

I just have one question. Did you try chambering the long brass sized with the forster die?

I know this might sound silly but maybe your fired brass hasn't fully fireformed to your chamber yet. Easy to find out just by trying to chamber that forster sized brass.

 

[Geronimo Jim]

You will love the Co-Ax.

 

[686 Shooter]

Lots of good.advice here.

I just have one question. Did you try chambering the long brass sized with the forster die?

I know this might sound silly but maybe your fired brass hasn't fully fireformed to your chamber yet. Easy to find out just by trying to chamber that forster sized brass.

I did try chambering the long brass and while it did chamber, it was a little tight. I have taken a few thousands off the top of the Lee shell holder and that got my resized brass to the same length as it was before sizing. This chambers fine so I am going with that for now.

I have been wanting to get a better press for a while now and this was the kick in the pants I needed to finally do it. It was a toss up between the co-ax and the T7. After much research online I have ordered a co-ax today. I'm sure that the T7 is an excellent press as well, both presses have their supporters and their detractors. I don't do any of my own case forming or anything that will put a large amount of stress on the press so the co-ax should perform fine for me. And who knows, as time goes by I may end up with one of each on my bench.

 

[686 Shooter]

most presses do flex and like ringo said a press that flex's less is better IMO. In my experience with the coax I havent always been able to run my dies in as far as i want either. the jaws will keep a person from screwing the dies down all that much farther than a std. shell holder.

Thanks for that info hoz. I'm hoping the co-ax will work for me as is. If not I will have to take a little off the bottom of the die. I have been wanting a better press for a while now anyway so I figured what the heck and ordered a coax this afternoon.

 

[Hermantk]

It’s been my experience that if you don’t have the die screwed in enough and there isn’t contact on the shoulders the case will grow in length as you size/shrink the body in diameter.

I would slowly work the die down and take measurements along the way. For the first few tries you won’t see any more growth, but if you keep going in small increments the shoulders will eventually make contact in the die and you’ll see them start to go the other way.

After post edit: I didn’t fully read the original post where the poster stated he is making contact against the shell holder. The other posters ideas about the shell holder height are more than likely the right solution.

I have done exactly this for the same issue on my Redding S die and it worked for me. I also came to the conclusion that, in resizing the body of the cart, the shoulder was actually pushed up. When I continued to dial down, i soon found the setting where i got the consistent .001 bump i was looking for.

 

[gman47564]

You will like the coax.. my t7 is under the bench collecting dust after getting the co ax.. i also use a lee 4 hole turret and a lee classic.. the classic has a decapping die in it and the turret a collet bullet puller. I also use the priming feature with the turret press.. but all my sizing and seating gets done on the co ax..