Help with group difference between 200 and 300 yds ?

[rebs]

I am shooting a Tikka T3x 223 with 8 twist barrel. I loaded the 77 gr SMK's with 23.6 of reloader 15 at 2.260. At 200 yds the groups are right around 3/4 inch for 5 shots groups, but when I shoot 300 yds they open up to right around 2 inch for 5 shot groups.. Do I need more powder or change something else to shoot tighter at 300 yds ? Or could it just be my shooting needs improvement ?

 

[Fotheringill]

Was it windy (and do you use flags) between 150 and 300 yards? what power scope are you using. At 300 yards, you are shooting at a much smaller dot (less distinct for center of bull) than at 200.

 

[T-shooter]

Are your groups growing horizontally from the wind?

 

[JEFFPPC]

I am shooting a Tikka T3x 223 with 8 twist barrel. I loaded the 69 gr SMK's with 23.6 of reloader 15 at 2.260. At 200 yds the groups are right around 3/4 inch for 5 shots groups, but when I shoot 300 yds they open up to right around 2 inch for 5 shot groups.. Do I need more powder or change something else to shoot tighter at 300 yds ? Or could it just be my shooting needs improvement ?

The path of the bullet is not a perfect cone of dispertion. If you are not shooting over wind flags with a light sporter I think your being a bit hard on yourself.I would consider 2 in 300 yd groups on a consistant basis with a small cartridge in light rifle pretty decent.

 

[JimSC]

The path of the bullet is not a perfect cone of dispertion. If you are not shooting over wind flags with a light sporte I think your being a bit hard on yourself.I would consider 2 in 300 yd groups on a consistant basis with a small cartridge in light rifle pretty decent.

agree, I had almost the same experience with .223. I could never get below .6 - .75 MOA consistently at greater than 200 until I switched to the 6BR. The cartridge does make a difference. I still like my .223, just not as much as I used to

 

[Ned Ludd]

Under absolutely perfect/ideal conditions, group dispersion in theory would increase linearly with respect to distance (i.e. 1" a@ 100, 2" a@ 200", 3" @ 300", etc.).

Unfortunately, none of us shoot under perfect/ideal conditions. There is always some wind you can't readily see, some shooter movement behind the rifle, etc., that causes shot dispersion to increase faster with respect to increasing distance. The relatively light 69 gr SMK bullet may be a contributing factor, as it will be more susceptible to even very light wind effects at longer distance. I'd be very happy with 2" groups at 300 yd using that bullet.

 

[Old Navy]

With your 8 twist I think you will like the 77 HPBT and even better if you want to shoot a lot farther out, the 80.5 Berger.

 

[eric n]

If that’s a factory barrel, you could be at the limit of what you can get out of it.
I know we all like to brag about our tikkas and savages but they just don’t stack up against a good custom barrel.
With that being said, those are still good groups.
Everything magnifies the farther you go.
WIND and depending on how you are shooting, your fundamentals.
How are you shooting? Bench and front rest? bipod?
What scope are you using?

 

[Liven The Dream]

.223 Story ?
I shot AR Service Rifle for years .
I worked on loads to Win at 200 , 300 and 600 yards . ( Win I did ).
I had two different loads for 200 &300 ?
My 200 load would clean the Target 99% of the time . It would shoot a 9 inch group at 300. I came up with a different Powder to Clean the 300 yard Target . That 300 yard load would not shoot at 200 ??,

I replaced that Barrel after 2 years 3200 rounds .
The New Barrel same as last Kreiger 1-7.7 shot the same load at 200 and 300 ?

Barrels can be like People , fickle.

Best of Luck

 

[Brians356]

Under absolutely perfect/ideal conditions, group dispersion in theory would increase linearly with respect to distance (i.e. 1" a@ 100, 2" a@ 200", 3" @ 300", etc.).

Unfortunately, none of us shoot under perfect/ideal conditions. There is always some wind you can't readily see, some shooter movement behind the rifle, etc., that causes shot dispersion to increase faster with respect to increasing distance. The relatively light 69 gr SMK bullet may be a contributing factor, as it will be more susceptible to even very light wind effects at longer distance. I'd be very happy with 2" groups at 300 yd using that bullet.

As in most sports and fine motor skills, the mental is at least as important as the physical. Stress is your enemy. And for my part, when I move to longer distances, I'm less relaxed and more anxious behind the rifle. Part of it is probably my eyes and lower scope ocular clarity at longer ranges, plus any wiggle of the retical produces a larger apparent motion on the target.
-

 

[JFrank]

I am shooting a Tikka T3x 223 with 8 twist barrel. I loaded the 69 gr SMK's with 23.6 of reloader 15 at 2.260. At 200 yds the groups are right around 3/4 inch for 5 shots groups, but when I shoot 300 yds they open up to right around 2 inch for 5 shot groups.. Do I need more powder or change something else to shoot tighter at 300 yds ? Or could it just be my shooting needs improvement ?

How sure are you that 23.6 is the optimum charge?
How sure are you that you have the optimum seating depth?
Did you leave your wind flags at home ?
J

 

[rebs]

My apology for stating the wrong bullet in my post, it is 77 gr SMK.

My Tikka has the heavy varmint barrel. Shooting off a bench with front rest and rear bag with a 8-32 x 56 Sightron SIII scope. The groups at 300 yds do have a slight horizontal dispersion. I did substantial load development on that bullet and powder and seating depth.

 

[JFrank]

My apology for stating the wrong bullet in my post, it is 77 gr SMK.

My Tikka has the heavy varmint barrel. Shooting off a bench with front rest and rear bag with a 8-32 x 56 Sightron SIII scope. The groups at 300 yds do have a slight horizontal dispersion. I did substantial load development on that bullet and powder and seating depth.

That’s a darn good rifle.

 

[rebs]

That’s a darn good rifle.

Thank you

 

[Homerange]

My apology for stating the wrong bullet in my post, it is 77 gr SMK.

My Tikka has the heavy varmint barrel. Shooting off a bench with front rest and rear bag with a 8-32 x 56 Sightron SIII scope. The groups at 300 yds do have a slight horizontal dispersion. I did substantial load development on that bullet and powder and seating depth.

Guys using those exact same Tikka's here have tuned them with 69gr Bergers to get ~2.5" groups @ 500 yds in good conditions.
Have you tried other pills ?

 

[rebs]

Guys using those exact same Tikka's here have tuned them with 69gr Bergers to get ~2.5" groups @ 500 yds in good conditions.
Have you tried other pills ?

would love to know what their load data is ?

 

[Homerange]

would love to know what their load data is ?

Couldn't say sorry as it's been a while since I've seen them but knowing the guy that developed this load for his kin they will be hot and well above anything in print.
Proceed with caution.

 

[Evan]

Despite popular conception, wind can push bullets vertical and horizontal...

I would recommend no less than 5 wind flags, one at your bench, 75, 150, 225, and the last at the target. even just sticks with surveyors tape tied to them work well. You may find it quite illuminating. Where I shoot, the 5 flags never agree on direction or magnitude. Sometimes one or more will be blowing at an upward angle!

 

[rebs]

Couldn't say sorry as it's been a while since I've seen them but knowing the guy that developed this load for his kin they will be hot and well above anything in print.
Proceed with caution.

if they are that hot I don't want to know LOL

 

[Webster]

I am shooting a Tikka T3x 223 with 8 twist barrel. I loaded the 77 gr SMK's with 23.6 of reloader 15 at 2.260. At 200 yds the groups are right around 3/4 inch for 5 shots groups, but when I shoot 300 yds they open up to right around 2 inch for 5 shot groups.. Do I need more powder or change something else to shoot tighter at 300 yds ? Or could it just be my shooting needs improvement ?

Factory rifle not a bench gun. What's reasonable???