HELP! Wilson seating die ??

[MislMan]

I just bought a new Wilson seating die (arbor press style) for 6.5 Creedmoor. I cannot get repeatable OALs nor BTOs with this die. I thoroughly cleaned the die internal chamber as well the seating stem using brake cleaner to remove manufacturing ‘stuff’. I am sizing Lapua new brass and once fired brass. Both full length sized in Redding bushing die using a 0.291 bushing (loaded round neck diameter is 0.292). New brass wasn’t touched by the FLS. Both new & once fired are necked up using a 0.263 Sinclair mandel. Bullets are Hornady 140 ELD-M and 0.264 diameter. Using VLD seating stem. New brass inside neck diameter lubed with mica powder on a plastic bristled brush. Once fired brass only wiped clean exterior after firing, no tumbling at all. Necks have powder residue only, no mica on these. Brass OAL is 1.910-1.912 for all brass. Using K&M arbor press, also brand new.

The issue is once setting the die for seating depth (loosen setscrew, adjust, tighten setscrew), when I set bullets out of 10 seatings only 2-3 have same OAL/BTO and the the range is like 2.813-2.819 (I’m set for 2.815). Additionally, the feel during seating is a little jerky and requires fairly forceful pressure to seat bullet (my 1st time using arbor press) and sort of jerks/releases at bottom of stroke. Question: how smooth/easy should arbor press feel during seating. What are the tricks to setting uo and using this style of die? At this point my Lee seating die on the Lee Classis Turret press is performing much better that this. Any and all help/suggestions welcomed.

 

[DHuffman]

You need to either sort your bullets or seat a bullet about .003 short of your target depth then measure and adjust the die again to seat to the correct depth.

The bullets are not uniform enough to set the die once and go to seating bullets.

 

[zipollini]

It's a common problem. Your seating stem profile does not match the bullet ogive profile. Your stem probably contacts the bullet too close to the point of the bullet. You will want one that makes contact with the bullet closer to the bearing surface.

 

[cw308]

Your brass case neck thickness is .014 I'm surprised it feels rough in seating , your neck tension is .001 should seat pretty smooth .I was thinking at first tension was to light as some soft seat their rounds . Feeling resistance in seating I would think it's tighter then .001
I run 0000 steel wool inside the necks , I use a smaller caliber cleaning brush wrapped in the wool and chucked in a drill press , makes seating very smooth ever at .004 neck tension. Your using top of the line brass , I'm using FC , HSM and ADI all are on the thick side and nowhere the quality of Lapua . It's puzzling with your seating die locked in position there would be a range in your base to ogive measurement. Your also using the VLD stem , I'm sure you double an triple check everything . Hopefully someone will be more helpful .

Chris

 

[nmkid]

I use about .001+ tension on my latest builds using a Bald Eagle arbor press and the bullets slide in almost effortlessly. Never had any problems with bullet movement in the case. So, you are sure you have .001 tension? Try a .290 bushing, might be a little better after spring back.

 

[243winxb]

Please be sure to try an UNLOADED case in the seater, whether it be neck sized only or full length sized after the seater has been cleaned of its shipping
oil. Push the case into the seater until it’s flush with the bottom of the seater (DO NOT FORCE IT). If it won’t go flush, or is hard to remove with a small
screwdriver under the rim or head, the seater needs to be opened up to fit your cases. Please send in 3 fired cases and the seater WITHOUT THE
SEATER STEM. Seaters are made to S.A.A.M.I specs for max cartridge. Many chambers are larger than that. Not all chamber reamers are created
equa

 

[MislMan]

Please be sure to try an UNLOADED case in the seater, whether it be neck sized only or full length sized after the seater has been cleaned of its shipping
oil. Push the case into the seater until it’s flush with the bottom of the seater (DO NOT FORCE IT). If it won’t go flush, or is hard to remove with a small
screwdriver under the rim or head, the seater needs to be opened up to fit your cases. Please send in 3 fired cases and the seater WITHOUT THE
SEATER STEM. Seaters are made to S.A.A.M.I specs for max cartridge. Many chambers are larger than that. Not all chamber reamers are created
equa

I’ll do this to see is what, but the new Lapua brass is fairly undersized to start with. Thanks for the help.

 

[dogdude]

First, zipolinni's comment is Very correct...take a magic marker to a bullet and spin it in the stem..you'll find where the contact is made (I'd bet it is high).
Second, chamfer the case neck a ''little'' deeper with the K&M tool...
Egan

 

[MislMan]

You need to either sort your bullets or seat a bullet about .003 short of your target depth then measure and adjust the die again to seat to the correct depth.

The bullets are not uniform enough to set the die once and go to seating bullets.

Dave ... I agree that bullet aren’t close in dimensions. However, my Lee dies and press get better results. I must be doing something wrong or the die is off kilter somewhere.

 

[Bob Sebold]

I don't know if this will help, but a friend of mine helped me with the same problem. Something is slightly out of square between the die top and seater body. You could lapp them with some fine diamond grit, or even flitz or iosso. That will true them up if they are not too far off. When the top gets rotated, you can get different seating depths if this is the problem.

 

[JFrank]

I just bought a new Wilson seating die (arbor press style) for 6.5 Creedmoor. I cannot get repeatable OALs nor BTOs with this die. I thoroughly cleaned the die internal chamber as well the seating stem using brake cleaner to remove manufacturing ‘stuff’. I am sizing Lapua new brass and once fired brass. Both full length sized in Redding bushing die using a 0.291 bushing (loaded round neck diameter is 0.292). New brass wasn’t touched by the FLS. Both new & once fired are necked up using a 0.263 Sinclair mandel. Bullets are Hornady 140 ELD-M and 0.264 diameter. Using VLD seating stem. New brass inside neck diameter lubed with mica powder on a plastic bristled brush. Once fired brass only wiped clean exterior after firing, no tumbling at all. Necks have powder residue only, no mica on these. Brass OAL is 1.910-1.912 for all brass. Using K&M arbor press, also brand new.

The issue is once setting the die for seating depth (loosen setscrew, adjust, tighten setscrew), when I set bullets out of 10 seatings only 2-3 have same OAL/BTO and the the range is like 2.813-2.819 (I’m set for 2.815). Additionally, the feel during seating is a little jerky and requires fairly forceful pressure to seat bullet (my 1st time using arbor press) and sort of jerks/releases at bottom of stroke. Question: how smooth/easy should arbor press feel during seating. What are the tricks to setting uo and using this style of die? At this point my Lee seating die on the Lee Classis Turret press is performing much better that this. Any and all help/suggestions welcomed.

A couple things come to mind
1- I just woke up from my nap
2- you just found out how sensitive an Arbor press is and how poor your Brass prep is
3- retrace your steps setting up and learn how to ( if you haven't already) index your Die to zero on a CBTO bullet that will keep your jump in context ( pic of .016 jump)
4- get a Wilson case gauge
5- examine your brass
Addendum- mine seats within .0005

Wilson doesn't make to many mistakes however they do provide instruction videos
SPJ

 

[JFrank]

It's a common problem. Your seating stem profile does not match the bullet ogive profile. Your stem probably contacts the bullet too close to the point of the bullet. You will want one that makes contact with the bullet closer to the bearing surface.

That's easy to find out on a Wilson the stem out comes right out
Very best tip for you is this-
After re examination and you still have trouble Call Wilson Monday morning. They will fix up you up!

 

[Richard Coody]

try some bergers

have you chamfered and deburred the cases

seating.should not be jerky. like using a powder measure same.stroke same effort every time. sort the smooth seaters from the jerky seaters and shoot them. bet the smooth ones have better groups.

do a little forensics on the jerky ones. something is wrong in your brass prep. sounds like inconsistent neck tension from a myriad of causes.

lapua brass and berger bullets is the way to go. new lapua brass is notoriously tight necked. expand with an expander.mandrel and then size the neck. don't bump the shoulder. lube those new cases with imperial dry neck lube. i dip the base of.the bullets in the lube when seating. clean those necks up with a neck turner is a step better.

 

[zipollini]

Here is a pic. of my 6XC cartridge with a DTAC 115 RBT bullet. The black line near the tip of the bullet is where my Wilson seater stem makes contact with the bullet. The lower black line is where my Forster BR seater makes contact. The Forster produces waaaaaay more uniform base to ogive measurements. I should probably contact Wilson to see what they can do for me. I'm guessing a .30 caliber stem would put the contact closer to the bearing surface where the Forster makes contact.

The other part of the equation is where on the bullet ogive your base to ogive measuring device contacts the bullet. You want it to contact the same place as your seater stem makes contact. I use a Hornady bullet comparator with inserts and my insert contacts the ogive at exactly the same place that my Forster seater makes contact.

https://www.hornady.com/reloading/p...s-and-gauges/lock-n-load-bullet-comparator#!/

As for smooth seating of bullets try this

Use VLD neck chamfer tool after every firing especially if you are wet tumbling with steel pins. Then us a nylon or bronze brush wrapped in 0000 steel wool as others have mentioned and power spin this in the necks after chamfering to remove any burrs left from chamfering. This creates a mirror like finish on the ID of the necks and you will not have to use mica or other lube on the ID of the necks. Also try and run a .002 neck tension by adjusting neck thickness or neck bushing size. This should give you buttery smooth bullet seating.

 

[JFrank]

My Forster doesn't contact the same spot as my comparator
Neither does my Wilson .
(My) Forster is inconsistent +-.001 I have to fiddle with it
whereas Wilson seater is spot on every time.0005 +-
My results only of course
Jim

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Is your bullet touching the powder? If it is with .001 neck tension thats your problem. Try measuring just the bullet with your comparator and see if thats your problem too

 

[MislMan]

Thanks for all input guys. I’ll be checking over brass, bullets, and dies again today (monday) using your comments. I’ll report back when I have concluded with checks. In the meantime, please add any more advice or questions you may come up with. After this I’ll call Wilson if needed but I hate to call to talk and not have info/data for the conversation. With Wilson’s reputation I figure it must be me doing something wrong as I have not had even 1 seating that could be called smooth.

 

[MislMan]

Is your bullet touching the powder? If it is with .001 neck tension thats your problem. Try measuring just the bullet with your comparator and see if thats your problem too

Dusty ... not touching powder. Load is 40.2 gr. of H4350 so not nearly compressed or touching (seated to 2.815).

 

[JFrank]

Thanks for all input guys. I’ll be checking over brass, bullets, and dies again today (monday) using your comments. I’ll report back when I have concluded with checks. In the meantime, please add any more advice or questions you may come up with. After this I’ll call Wilson if needed but I hate to call to talk and not have info/data for the conversation. With Wilson’s reputation I figure it must be me doing something wrong as I have not had even 1 seating that could be called smooth.

Wilson is a relatively small place in Casmere Wa. They always answer the phone and Always want to help use their products. Call them!
Jim

 

[BW64]

I'll have to agree with the various neck tensions solution. I have the same press, same caliber' same die & same bullets. I had the same problem. The neck bushing wasn't working for me. Decided to try less neck tension so I tried a mandrel from a K&M turning setup. Viola!! Perfect every time. I FL size then run the mandrel in the neck. Problem solved.

BW