Help -weighing/sorting 260 brass

[65BR]

I have 200 new RP 260 brass - want to weigh-sort.

1) Is an RCBS balance powder scale ok to do it with?
2) If I buy an electronic scale, what is best value?
3) What do you suggest, how many 'lots' and where to begin choosing a range of how to sort?

I need advice as to what 'range of variance' I need to keep the deviation per lot. Also, how much accuracy is to be gained by neck turning this brass, and what is the best way to do it, tools, brand if on a budget?

Thanks guys in advance.

 

[billmo]

65BR
The balance beam scales will be very hard and tedious to try and weigh brass. You really need an electronic scale to do this fairly quickly. The RCBS is doing fine for me. You need to calibrate it often. Brass should be sorted by weight in groups of not more than 2 gr. If the neck wall thickness is not over .0015,that is one and one-half thousandths) you would probably not gain anything by turning brass necks. Some folks say that unless you have a custom or tightneck chamber turning brass is wasted time. I have done no test so I can't say for sure
K & M and Sinclair offer very high quality neck turning component tools but these are not cheap. I think Hornady also makes a tool that is more economical. I hope this helps. Bill

 

[billmo]

Hey Man, are you sure about the decimal. .015 is fifteen thousandths. So .0015 would be one and one-half thousandths. I was refering to the variances of each individual neck perimeter
as you stated. I agree that K & M is the way to go with neck turning tools. If I am wrong about the decimal man, correct me again but I think that is right. Thanks, Bill

 

[billmo]

O K Man, I understand. It was the way I read it that led me astray. Sorry. I agree it is going to be hard to do what he is wanting to do without some more measuring devices. And with a factory rifle he may not see any results at all. Bill

 

[65BR]

Guys, please, not meant to start any issues, but the help is MUCH appreciated, my 6BR using Lapua is a Ruger #1, min spec chamber and it shoots better than I, have shot a 3 shot group .498 at 330 yds, no brass work.

The only 260 I have now is a Sako 75 Varmint SS model 75. I think it has potential, albeit a 9" twist, which I prefer 8, but in this rifle, if I can go to 129's on the high side, it should be fine.

Read neck turning is not a huge thing, but it seems brass sort by wt. may be more of a return on investment.

Never turned my first neck, rather not to be honest, love to shoot, but not spend all my time loading.

I love shooting the best accuracy, but benchrest is not my intent, perhaps a local match but if I can get under 1/2moa, it's up to me at the 330 and 415 yd mark in the wind, mirage, and doping drop vs a small improvement in groups.

There is a factory class and custom class. I won't be using this rifle in the custom class, just don't have the time to get that serious right now. Other than that, love to pop a deer or two and like my guns to shoot closer to .5moa or better when possible, .6-.8 at that worst. Thanks again.

BTW, any load suggestions? Long ago did well with IMR 4350, 100 b. tips punching paper, and 129 hornady's for deer. Hear the 120 b. tip is hard to beat on deer. BTW, I went with RP brass as some reports I read seemed favorable on this round, with RP brass, not usually my choice.

 

[Ackman]

New brass isn't all the same length. Measuring will show you that OAL varies. So unless brass is all trimmed to exactly the same length, sorting by weight is meaningless. Then, unless necks are turned to exactly the same thickness you're still not dealing with equals. Sorting brass by weight and for that weight variation to have any potential significance, cases have to be identical externally....which is the limit of your control over them. In other words, sorting new brass by weight is meaningless. But even - after doing all that prep with once fired brass - with different .223 brass, I found that within the same headstamp heavier cases would just as likely have more volume than lighter cases. In other words there was no correlation between case weight and internal volume. Far as I'm concerned, sorting new brass is a waste of time and even sorting fully prepped cases won't accomplish anything. And with a factory or SAAMI chamber, neckturning won't get you anything either. However going by other chamberings,I've no experience with Remington .260 brass), my choice would be to use Winchester or some other headstamp.

 

[billmo]

Well, since you have dumped the whole load I will say that any testing as far as weight of brass is concerned that I have done has not proved to be any aid to accuracy whatsoever. Some BR shooters say that it makes a huge difference and some say not.

 

[Ackman]

Gunamonth, you can do the same thing I did and come to your own conclusions. Weigh a whole bunch of NEW brass with a couple different headstamps. I used IMI and Winchester. Choose a handful of each that represent the very heaviest and the very lightest of each headstamp, and then a range of weights in between. Fireform them to a chamber using the same load in each. After forming, trim to the same length, weigh each case, then very carefully fill with water and weigh again. Use a medicine dropper and be very careful not to get air trapped under the shoulder. Do the measurement at least a couple times to be sure..... it takes care to get water absolutely flush with a casemouth. You'll be surprised at what you discover. Then turn the necks and re-weigh....volume won't change but caseweight will to a more or less degree, however not enough to change the outcome.

The absolute fact is that brass volume isn't necessarily in the case body. It doesn't take much brass volume to weigh .2gr, or 1/2 or even 1 grain. And that small volume can be anywhere including the caseneck, the head, or the extractor groove, or maybe all of them. Reload a whole bunch of brass and there'll always be some that fit the shellholder tighter than others. Occasionally there'll be one that doesn't even go into the shellholder. What does that tell you?

Another absolute fact was that with both headstamps, the case holding most water was either the heaviest or not the lightest.

Yet another absolute fact was that IMI had the greatest weight differential from heaviest to lightest but had a greatest-to-least volume differential something like about 1/3 that of Winchester. My test was with 223 brass, maybe one day I'll repeat it with some other cartridges.

Although both headstamps had similar weights and held a similar amount, I wasn't looking to compare the volume of one headstamp to another. Lots of people talk about how they take new brass and sort it by weight, the inference being that somehow accuracy will be increased. I was looking for the relationship between case weight and case volume and found none. Even with cases that had been made physically,externally) the same after forming with the same load in the same chamber and trimming to the same exact length......both with unturned and turned necks, I found the oft-repeated and commonly assumed "absolute" about heavier brass having less volume just isn't true. New brass length can easily vary by .005" or more, and casenecks aren't equal. And again, brass volume can be anywhere on the case. Sorting by weight is meaningless and even more so with new virgin brass..

If you don't want to believe me, don't. Do your own testing and draw your own conclusions. But don't naturally assume that something "is" just because it's a commonly held belief or that it seems logical. Find out for yourself.

 

[65BR]

Great tech info on this subject, I remember trimming cases for a 708 HB 700 seemed to tighten things up a bit, and I did that when wanting to go for better groups, but never weighed brass then, so what some are saying here is, forget weighing the cases, but after 1st shot, trim them and that will do more good for accuracy?

I have a good bit of shooting and loading experience, but not when it comes to really 'precision' loading watching ALL the little details. My best accuracy has been with 6br, using min spec saami, and whether Lapua and even RP brass, I got accuracy usually better than I can always hold, or see, and especially when you are w/o sandbags.

I don't mind spending some time doing things, but honestly have seen my Ruger #1 6BR shoot groups that are comparable to some guys high dollar custom actioned bolts.......for whatever reason, it just is what it is. I know day in and day out their guns and loads neck turned and all should out shoot me every time. I just like to keep things simple and enjoy shooting so looking to more time there than loading. Thanks to all.