Help forming 6mm AI from 7x57

[GT Accuracy]

Hey guys

I have tried forming 6mm AI brass from 7x57 as per Richards posting but I am getting some brutally crumpled necks and shoulders. Anyone done this successfully?

I am running through a 6.5x284 die as the first step and getting stuck right there



Thanks


Greg

 

[wapiti25]

Why not use the FL 6mmAI die, lube real good with Hornady Unique or Imperial sizing wax. Only size 1/2 turn down at each pass, watch for lube build up when you get near the formed shoulder or you will cause dimples in the shoulder. I recommend you anneal the brass first and again after formed. Do you have a 260 Remington sizing die? 308 Bushing die? You could do part of the forming with them.

 

[wapiti25]

You may be trying to size too much, try 1/2 turn down each pass with no expander in the die. You will need to anneal the brass or it will not last if you get it formed.

 

[jonbearman]

I would think you would form it into 6mm rem and then blow it out.Unless I am way off the beam.

 

[waverly]

On my 3rd barrel in this chambering. First 2 were .265 neck, and the most recent is .269 neck. All on a 1K light gun.

I turn the necks first on the 7x57 brass. Then run it through a 6mm Rem form & trim die, and then last a 6 Rem body die. I turn the necks down only enough to chamber with a crush fit. I then fireform with cow. After the first firing(with cow) I turn the necks to end up with.2665 loaded diameter. I then anneal before firing.
After the brass is fireformed (with cow) I shoot a full load of H4831sc. I don't lose brass, nor do I get wrinkled shoulders using this method.

A lot of work. I hope this helps.
Waverly

 

[Elwood]

I used the method in the link below and it worked fine for me, I did lose a couple of cases which I think was due to not enough Imperial sizing wax.
http://www.angelfire.com/sd/6mmackley/7x57mauser.html

Be prepared to neck turn.

Is it RWS 7x57 brass?

 

[GT Accuracy]

No it is Norma 7x57 Brass

Still having the issue unfortunately using the 6.5-284 first then to the 6mm AI FL die


A lot of people seem to be thinking this should work without issue but I have tried a bunch of different lubricates and getting destroyed shoulders

However... if i go 6.5-284 to .257 Roberts to 6mm AI i get intact cases but the shoulders are a little rounded, almost look like a huge donut


very confused and quite frustrated at all this as i have never had issues forming brass before. could the norma brass be faulty?


Greg

 

[GT Accuracy]

here is a pic from a video i uploaded to some reloading buddies of the issues

 

[ShootDots]

I used to use a 6mm A.I. for deer hunting at one time. It is a good idea to use Norma 7 x 57 brass.. It will give you nearly a grain more powder AND Norma brass is excellent stuff indeed.
1.) Run the cases into a 7mm Mandrel;
2.) Make sure you have a GOOD chamfer on the inside BUT especially on (knock that edge off) the OUTSIDE of the case neck..
3.) Use a REGULAR 6mm Rem die and lube up the body good, BUT make sure the inside and the outside of that neck is lubed. Run it straight into the REGULAR 6mm Rem die.
4.) Then turn the necks down and get rid of the "build-up" of brass at the neck / shoulder junction.
5.) Then anneal the brass.
6.) Load up about 41-42grs of either IMR or H4350 with a 100gr bullet jammed about 15K into the lands.
7.) You will or should I say you SHOULD NOT have any problems..
8.) Now reload using your A.I. Die..

 

[Elwood]

Greg, that is exactly what I experienced, but only with a few cases.

I followed the instructions to the letter in the link I gave you and it worked fine for me.

This is my explanation, the Crusader is basically a 6mmAI, from re-reading this I came to the conclusion that the cases that buckled possibly didn't have enough support at the case wall area.
http://ukvarminting.com/forums/topic/10600-6mm-crusader/

 

[TimP]

Greg,

I had the same issue when I tried necking down my Norma 7X57 brass with a 6.5-284 FL die. What I found to work best is to run the brass through a Redding 6MM Remington Form & Trim die first. Then a standard 6MM Remington FL die. Set up your 6MM Remington FL die to bump the shoulders back whatever is needed (within reason) to keep them all consistent. You want IMO the neck shoulder junction consistent if you are using the case mouth as a stop for your turner. Expand the neck with whatever neck turning tool you are using then turn the necks load and fire form.

Lube, Lube, Lube! Imperial die wax worked for me.

 

[ShootDots]

EXACTLY what TimP and Elwood stated... That is why I use a REGULAR 6mmRem die to form the cases with. If you do not have enough support right at the body and neck / shoulder junction, the case is to weak to stand on it's own accord. It NEEDS the side support of either a form die or regular die>>>your problems will disappear..

 

[rich44]

I have been using a 257 Roberts form die them 6mm fl with Norma 7x57 brass for my 6AI and havent lost a case I have also been turning the necks first, and using imperial wax

 

[GT Accuracy]

took all the advice from you gents and ran the brass from 6.5-284 then through a std. 6mm Die and BINGO WE GOT TO SIZE.

it was definitely the lack of neck support of the 40* AI Die. Going to mic a few here this evening or tomorrow and report back again

You boys are PIMPS!

Thanks

Greg

 

[RobertTX]

A guy on 24hrcampfire has new 6mm brass. Think his name is 223. I bought some, it is new in bag W-W, price is OK. Don't know if this is helpful, you may have a bunch of the 7x57 you want to use.

 

[expiper]

as these folks are saying,,,you have to make em 6mm Rem. first then FF into 6mm AI.,,,,you cant form a 40* shoulder with dies ,,you gotta blow it out from whatever it is originally,,,Roger

 

[Changeling]

I form all my 6mm AI improved brass from 6mm brass (New).

I use cheap (whats cheap anymore!) 6mm bullets into lands lightly with crush fit on case, near max - 3 grains or so of a medium fast powder. Fire! That's it!

Out of forming about 200 or so cases I think I lost 1.

The best way to start is when you have the chamber made for your rifle is to have a GREAT gunsmith set up the chamber for a crush fit with the brand of brass you intend to use.
I know these days EVERYTHING is hard/expensive to get, but it pays to do things correctly.

I know you asked about using 7x57 brass, however that’s not the way I do things, maybe the others can help you with that.

 

[rich44]

I form all my 6mm AI improved brass from 280 brass (New).

I use cheap (whats cheap anymore!) 280 bullets into lands lightly with crush fit on case, near max - 3 grains or so of a medium fast powder. Fire! That's it!

Out of forming about 200 or so cases I think I lost 1.

The best way to start is when you have the chamber made for your rifle is to have a GREAT gunsmith set up the chamber for a crush fit with the brand of brass you intend to use.
I know these days EVERYTHING is hard/expensive to get, but it pays to do things correctly.

I know you asked about using 7x57 brass, however that’s not the way I do things, maybe the others can help you with that.

Wait what? How do you shoot .280 bullets from a .6mm

 

[tiny68]

I have a 6 AI that Dave Tooley put together for me with a 0.272" neck. I form brass from 7x57 RWS brass. It is the hardest stuff I have found and I run my 6 A.I. wide open (95 Berger VLDs at +3500 fps). The RP brass was only got for 2-3 firings and primer pockets got lose.

I turn the RWS brass, anneal, lube with Imperial, run in a 257 Robert FL die twice rotating 90 degrees between (habit), run in a 6mm Rem FL die, fire form with COW method, clean brass, load and fire in rifle, re-anneal, turn again to remove the final 0.0005", finally done. I have 12+ firings on some of the brass and still going strong.

I found that if I didn't anneal to start with the I did crush a few with the RWS brass. I don't know what kind of heat treatment they use but that is the hardest stuff I have ever tried to work with.

Luck with your 6 A.I., Tim

 

[SShooterZ]

I form all my 6mm AI improved brass from 280 brass (New).

I use cheap (whats cheap anymore!) 280 bullets into lands lightly with crush fit on case, near max - 3 grains or so of a medium fast powder. Fire! That's it!

Out of forming about 200 or so cases I think I lost 1.

The best way to start is when you have the chamber made for your rifle is to have a GREAT gunsmith set up the chamber for a crush fit with the brand of brass you intend to use.
I know these days EVERYTHING is hard/expensive to get, but it pays to do things correctly.

I know you asked about using 7x57 brass, however that’s not the way I do things, maybe the others can help you with that.

Wait what? How do you shoot .280 bullets from a .6mm

I'm confused on this one too.