Help deciding between 6.5x47 and 6.5cm

[clrems77]

Hi guys,
Been a long time reader here and have finally begun to chime in on some topics. I know many of you here are very knowledgeable and was hoping you could help with my question. Looking to build a new rifle and can't decide whether or not to stay with the 6.5cm or swap to the ever popular 6.5x47. Part of me likes the thought of a new caliber to play with but the other half says to be practical and stick with what I'm already tooled up for.
The rifle will be used as a fun gun with hopes of one day trying out some PRS matches.

Any suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated!

 

[noload]

I never shot a 6.5 CM. But I've got 2) 6.5x47s. They shoot sweet. Easy to load for. And the brass holds up great,, pretty much indestructible. Accuracy wise, They are a solid contender at 500yd to 700yd. Versions of the 6br beat them out at closer distances, barely.

 

[Patch700]

Myself personally I am a big fan of the 47 Lapua case.. However in this instance and for what you are doing I would say to just stay with what you have.

Where the 47 Lapua case starts to shine is when you start to step on the gas , the small primer pocket leaves more meat in the head of the case .

If you are one who likes to try new things I would say there are other calibers that might make the change between the CM and your next project more interesting , such as a dasher etc.

Good luck.

 

[KT]

I would also look at brass. In the PRS matches sometimes you don't get your brass back. Creed brass is much cheaper to lose than the lapua.

KT

 

[280man]

6.5x47. Dont worry about brass cost. You will spend more for gas in your truck and PRS entry fees than what the brass you lose will cost.

 

[Shynloco]

6.5x47...They shoot sweet. Easy to load for. And the brass holds up great,, pretty much indestructible. Accuracy wise, They are a solid contender at 500yd to 700yd.

Personally, I like the 6.5cm for short distance shooting. But as noload says, if you are going to go mid to longer distance, 6.5X47 IS the way to go. Just my thoughts.

Alex

P.S. As 280 says, forget the cost of brass. If you are chasing accuracy, the cost of brass shouldn't matter (within reason...say under .85 a casing.)

 

[rpierce]

I like the 47 due to the small primer pocket staying tight and its amazing accuracy. Im using 41.1 gr of h4350 and 140s. There is powder crunch when seating 140 gr bullets yet not enough the powder pushes the bullet out. I have around 8 firings on the brass and the pockets feel brand new. Ive shot numerous 1/4 moa groups at 800+ with it off the bipod. My fclass barrel shot in the low .1s at 100 on my old bat gun. I got 2nd place at the Camp Perry fclass mid range nationals with it. I even managed to win a palma fclass match with it against numerous 7mms in the hands of some good shooters. It wasn't terribly windy that day so I think my accuracy advantage over the 7mms trumped their wind bucking abilities. My experience has been its just as accurate as my br's and brx's Ive had only better in the wind.

 

[clrems77]

Thanks for everyones response! This will be mostly used for 400-1000+ yards so the 47 might be the better bet. Being that I've invested buckets of money into this hobby already, I'm not too concerned about losing a few pieces of brass if i ever make it to a match.

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

Thanks for everyones response! This will be mostly used for 400-1000+ yards so the 47 might be the better bet. Being that I've invested buckets of money into this hobby already, I'm not too concerned about losing a few pieces of brass if i ever make it to a match.

I would rethink the idea of the 6.5x47. It is a great round, don't get me wrong, but you need to look at all of the issues.

The 6.5x47 was designed for 300 meters. That's it. So they were not too concerned regarding anything further.

The 6.5 Creedmoor has greater powder capacity. It also uses a large rifle primer whereby the Lapua uses a small rifle primer. I have not seen any convincing evidence that the small rifle primer is better than the large and vice versa, but theories abound regarding how you get a more consistent powder burn with a large rifle primer.

My decision was simple, I went with the larger case capacity, that being the 6.5 Creedmoor. Why would I want a smaller case capacity? The other variables are pretty similar (shoulder angle, brass life, etc.).

Meanwhile, my friend did go the 6.5x47 route and he is very happy, but hunts down his brass like a jack rabbit on a hot date. He is rabid. I feel bad, given that I just bought my brass on amazon with free shipping and it was at my door in like 3 days. Hornady has worked hard to get the brass out there, at a fraction of the cost. Meanwhile, Norma just entered the 6.5 Creedmoor game. Things are looking better and better for the 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

[turbo54]

Creed brass is 70¢ a pop, x47 is 90¢… Making a cartridge selection based on a brass cost difference of 20¢ per piece is penny wise and pound foolish.

I love the little x47 I just built and prefer it to the creed, but considering you're already rigged to load the Creed, there's no particularly good reason to switch. The Creed is a great choice and indeed can achieve slightly higher velocity, but its on the order of 25fps. 50fps max...which isn't really zip.shit in the scheme of PRS matches.

Unless you just like playing with new/different stuff, I'd say keep the creed.

 

[XTR]

Why not throw the 260 Remington in the mix? The three are ballistic triplets, and with the 260 you get the most case capacity and the most available brass.

 

[turbo54]

Problem I have with 260, is it requires magazines that accommodate 2.950"+ with good 140gr bullets to take advantage of its case capacity, and to keep bearing surface north of the donut.

If 2.850" or less is a requirement, the 260 is a non starter for me.

 

[XTR]

Problem I have with 260, is it requires magazines that accommodate 2.950"+ with good 140gr bullets to take advantage of its case capacity, and to keep bearing surface north of the donut.

If 2.850" or less is a requirement, the 260 is a non starter for me.

The 2.850 may not be limiting, my Alpha mags (or an AICS with the plates removed) will take bullets at 2.940 OAL, you have to get the feed port on the action re-worked, but it's a pretty standard operation for a smith these days.

Have you taken a hard look and compared the 140 to the 120/130 class bullets with achievable MVs? For your application is the calculated difference something that will translate to the field?

 

[turbo54]

I shoot PRS matches and very, very rarely am presented with an unknown distance target, so trajectory is essentially irrelevant.

Thus, wind drift and acceptable recoil are the heavy hitters.

There is not a 120-130gr bullet available that I am aware of that will shoot inside of (in the wind) a Berger 140 hybrid in a case that holds ~40-45gr of powder.

It boils down to bullet form factor. Currently the 140 is the best thing going in 6.5mm at ~.91. There's a Norma 130 slightly better, but I wasn't able to get them going fast enough to make up for their loss of BC.

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

Creed brass is 70¢ a pop, x47 is 90¢… Making a cartridge selection based on a brass cost difference of 20¢ per piece is penny wise and pound foolish.

Just to be clear, you are incorrect. I purchased my brass at $0.49 a piece (with tax), not $0.70. I guess I was a little lucky in that I purchased this at $33.99 per box of 100 from Amazon as they are no longer available at that time.

Meanwhile, Powder Valley has them at $31.99 per box of 100. When I look for .260 remington brass, they are sold out almost everywhere right now. My friend with a .260 had a very hard time finding .260 Remington brass. He finally found some .260 in Lapua.

Meanwhile, Lapua .260 Remington brass from Powder Valley is out of stock and they sell that for $93.85 per 100. Ouch.

So far, my cost savings is $.50 per round, times 300 = $150.00.

6.5 Creedmoor is MUCH more cost effective. Just have to realize the facts, sorry.

 

[Hoier]

Thanks for everyones response! This will be mostly used for 400-1000+ yards so the 47 might be the better bet. Being that I've invested buckets of money into this hobby already, I'm not too concerned about losing a few pieces of brass if i ever make it to a match.

I would rethink the idea of the 6.5x47. It is a great round, don't get me wrong, but you need to look at all of the issues.

The 6.5x47 was designed for 300 meters. That's it. So they were not too concerned regarding anything further.

The 6.5 Creedmoor has greater powder capacity. It also uses a large rifle primer whereby the Lapua uses a small rifle primer. I have not seen any convincing evidence that the small rifle primer is better than the large and vice versa, but theories abound regarding how you get a more consistent powder burn with a large rifle primer.

My decision was simple, I went with the larger case capacity, that being the 6.5 Creedmoor. Why would I want a smaller case capacity? The other variables are pretty similar (shoulder angle, brass life, etc.).

Meanwhile, my friend did go the 6.5x47 route and he is very happy, but hunts down his brass like a jack rabbit on a hot date. He is rabid. I feel bad, given that I just bought my brass on amazon with free shipping and it was at my door in like 3 days. Hornady has worked hard to get the brass out there, at a fraction of the cost. Meanwhile, Norma just entered the 6.5 Creedmoor game. Things are looking better and better for the 6.5 Creedmoor.

The 47 will do everything the Creedmoor will do. My 47 is a bench gun and shoots every bit as good as my br does at 600 or 1k. However in my experience in the Precision Rifle matches accuracy doesn't mean everything like it does in br. So I would think the op would be happy with either.

 

[Hoier]

Creed brass is 70¢ a pop, x47 is 90¢… Making a cartridge selection based on a brass cost difference of 20¢ per piece is penny wise and pound foolish.

Just to be clear, you are incorrect. I purchased my brass at $0.49 a piece (with tax), not $0.70. I guess I was a little lucky in that I purchased this at $33.99 per box of 100 from Amazon as they are no longer available at that time.

Meanwhile, Powder Valley has them at $31.99 per box of 100. When I look for .260 remington brass, they are sold out almost everywhere right now. My friend with a .260 had a very hard time finding .260 Remington brass. He finally found some .260 in Lapua.

Meanwhile, Lapua .260 Remington brass from Powder Valley is out of stock and they sell that for $93.85 per 100. Ouch.

So far, my cost savings is $.50 per round, times 300 = $150.00.

6.5 Creedmoor is MUCH more cost effective. Just have to realize the facts, sorry.

The Creedmoor brass comes in boxes of 50 not 100. 😉

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

Creed brass is 70¢ a pop, x47 is 90¢… Making a cartridge selection based on a brass cost difference of 20¢ per piece is penny wise and pound foolish.

Just to be clear, you are incorrect. I purchased my brass at $0.49 a piece (with tax), not $0.70. I guess I was a little lucky in that I purchased this at $33.99 per box of 100 from Amazon as they are no longer available at that time.

Meanwhile, Powder Valley has them at $31.99 per box of 100. When I look for .260 remington brass, they are sold out almost everywhere right now. My friend with a .260 had a very hard time finding .260 Remington brass. He finally found some .260 in Lapua.

Meanwhile, Lapua .260 Remington brass from Powder Valley is out of stock and they sell that for $93.85 per 100. Ouch.

So far, my cost savings is $.50 per round, times 300 = $150.00.

6.5 Creedmoor is MUCH more cost effective. Just have to realize the facts, sorry.

The Creedmoor brass comes in boxes of 50 not 100. 😉

Oh dear, you are right. My bad. Still, a good deal, nonetheless.

 

[turbo54]

Yeah, so...

Making a cartridge choice based on a 20-30¢ a piece difference in brass cost is penny wise, pound foolish.

Consider the turnkey barrel costs $1000.

You'll burn ~3 kegs of powder @ $185 each, and fire ~3500 bullets and primers, at ~45¢ per round.

That's ~$3000+ in barrel, bullets, powder and primers. To say nothing of fuel to get you to/from the range and matches, time off work, club memberships etc.

Let's (wrongly) assume creedmoor brass lasts as well as x47, and assume 10 shots per piece. That's ~350pcs of brass needed to fail the barrel.

At 25¢ * 350pcs, that's a whopping savings of $87 for you, having chosen the creed cartridge instead.

Bottom line: Choose the best performing cartridge, not the cheaper one.

Edit to add:

Now, if you want to argue the point you don't want to get into the reloading business, just want to buy 140amax factory ammo, shoot it, and sell your spent brass - I won't argue the creed makes much more sense than an x47.

 

[XTR]

Yeah, so...

Making a cartridge choice based on a 20-30¢ a piece difference in brass cost is penny wise, pound foolish.

Consider the turnkey barrel costs $1000.

Where do you get your barrels? I'm all in for about 1/2 that on mine



Let's (wrongly) assume creedmoor brass lasts as well as x47, and assume 10 shots per piece. That's ~350pcs of brass needed to fail the barrel.


At 25¢ * 350pcs, that's a whopping savings of $87 for you, having chosen the creed cartridge instead.

The argument made for cheaper brass isn't based on the 350 (I'd call it 500) pieces to wear out your barrel, it assumes you end up needing 1000 to 1500 because you lose your brass at the matches because you can't police or lose it in the grass/leaves/etc.

As for which is a better chambering, I've never seen a conclusive result that there was a nickles difference in the 260R/6.5 Creedmoor/6.5 Lapua

6.5x47 Lapua gets small primers
6.5 Creedmoor gets slightly more capacity than the L
Both have a better shoulder than the 260R
Both give a little more room in a mag for long seating 140s (though they lose capacity to do it)
The 260 has more capacity then either
Seating length can be in part negated by running mags w/o front plates and getting your action relieved to feed long (2.940 or so) bullets

If you are really trying to run a PRS gun most of the top runners seem to have gone to the 6mm. George Gardner at GAP is even getting 6 Creedmoor brass made.

I don't think saying any of the above is "best" is objective.