Just starting to reload and I need to buy a die set. I’ve got a Rock Chucker single stage press. I’m going to be reloading 6.5 Creedmoor for hunting. I’m not shooting BR but I want really accurate rounds. Sounds like some die are more accurate for the seating depth? Do I need a 2 piece or 3 piece? Can I use any brand on the RCBS press (like Forster)?
Help a newbie with die sets
- Thread starter leclairk
- Start date
jepp2
Gold $$ Contributor
You can use any brand that threads in (not the arbor press style dies).
Folks tend to have preferences. Mine is for Redding dies with the Competition bullet seating dies. You should plan to full length size your brass, properly adjusted so you only set the shoulder back a minimal amount.
Either RCBS or Redding standard dies meaning a full length sizing and a standard seating die is capable of producing excellent and very accurate reloads and will give you a life time of service. I'm still using my RCBS dies which were purchased in the late 60's.
More importantly you need to master how to properly size your cases. If you're shooting a bolt rifle this means bumping the shoulder back about .001 to .002" from a fired case in the specific rifle you are loading for. This means you need some means to verify shoulder set back. There are a number of gage options available to measure shoulder set back or you can do it manually using the old trial and error method of small increments of sizing until the bolt drops on a sized case with slight resistance. I believe you would be better off measuring shoulder set back than attempting the manual method.
New cases (unfired) should be sized with no shoulder set back meaning zero "cam over" of the shell holder. New cases are sized to uniform the cases and correct slight dents / imperfections in the necks.
As cases age you may need to change the die setting to achieve the proper shoulder set back therefore set back should be verified as the cases age with repeated reloadings. Also the cases should be dedicated to a specific rifle.
I found that using Skip's Shims are an easy way to adjust the amount of cam over thereby adjusting the shoulder set back.
More importantly you need to master how to properly size your cases. If you're shooting a bolt rifle this means bumping the shoulder back about .001 to .002" from a fired case in the specific rifle you are loading for. This means you need some means to verify shoulder set back. There are a number of gage options available to measure shoulder set back or you can do it manually using the old trial and error method of small increments of sizing until the bolt drops on a sized case with slight resistance. I believe you would be better off measuring shoulder set back than attempting the manual method.
New cases (unfired) should be sized with no shoulder set back meaning zero "cam over" of the shell holder. New cases are sized to uniform the cases and correct slight dents / imperfections in the necks.
As cases age you may need to change the die setting to achieve the proper shoulder set back therefore set back should be verified as the cases age with repeated reloadings. Also the cases should be dedicated to a specific rifle.
I found that using Skip's Shims are an easy way to adjust the amount of cam over thereby adjusting the shoulder set back.
dgeesaman
Gold $$ Contributor
Any brand of die should fit if it has proper threads.
it hasn’t been mentioned clearly yet but you will need a shoulder and ogive measuring tool for 6.5mm and a set of dial calipers. I use the Hornady “Lock and Load” series. The shoulder piece is required to be able to get your die set for a consistent and appropriate full length size. The ogive tool is required to control the seating depth of the round.
My personal preference is a seating die and a full length die with neck bushing. You can neck size with the full length die by leaving it a half turn out from bump.
At some point the arbor press dies produce more consistent seating depths but for a hunting rifle you just need to consistent within a couple thou. Ultra-accurate loads are very sensitive to temperature, altitude, etc and not useful in the field. When you develop a load for hunting you’ll want to find a wide forgiving node of “very good” instead of trying to ride the knife edge of a “match” load and constantly adjust it.
it hasn’t been mentioned clearly yet but you will need a shoulder and ogive measuring tool for 6.5mm and a set of dial calipers. I use the Hornady “Lock and Load” series. The shoulder piece is required to be able to get your die set for a consistent and appropriate full length size. The ogive tool is required to control the seating depth of the round.
My personal preference is a seating die and a full length die with neck bushing. You can neck size with the full length die by leaving it a half turn out from bump.
At some point the arbor press dies produce more consistent seating depths but for a hunting rifle you just need to consistent within a couple thou. Ultra-accurate loads are very sensitive to temperature, altitude, etc and not useful in the field. When you develop a load for hunting you’ll want to find a wide forgiving node of “very good” instead of trying to ride the knife edge of a “match” load and constantly adjust it.
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Tim Singleton
Gold $$ Contributor
No reason in the world not to use Whidden dies.
Not really that much more and are a top notch product
Not really that much more and are a top notch product
Depending on your budget, any of the main line 2 die set up ( f/l and seating die) will work for you on the Rock Chucker. i.e. RCBS, Redding Hornady,lee to name a few. If you want to spend a little more then Whidden's dies would be the way to go. Have fun, but play safe and get a couple good reloading manual/books for load data. You can also use Hornady's Data loading site.
Fast14riot
Gold $$ Contributor
You can use a piece of 40s&w brass as a cheap shoulder comparator, just be sure to always use the same one. The actual measurement isn't important, but the difference between unsized and sized is.
A good Full Length sizing die (with or without neck bushings) and an easily adjustable seating die can/will produce excellent ammo.
A good Full Length sizing die (with or without neck bushings) and an easily adjustable seating die can/will produce excellent ammo.
If you're NOT using an automatic there's no reason to crimp.... So a regular full length set of RCBS dies is what I would use since you're not shooting bench rest they will be cheap , easy to find and load hunting ammo better quality than any factory ammo hands down... I use RCBS f/l dies in my tactical .308 and they are just fine....
hoz53
Gold $$ Contributor
keep it simple as possible just starting out youd do yourself a favor just getting a full length 2 die set of RCBS or redding dies. Learn the basics with these inexpensively and then move on to other types if you want--these basic dies will produce fine quality ammo though and you may find are all you ever need. A substitute for the rcbs or redding dies mite be a set of Forster as the seater has a sliding sleeve which supposedly aligns the case better. Id go with one of the former two to start with though
tvaught
Gold $$ Contributor
@leclairk
If you buy these things, and don’t like them, you can sell them here for 80% of your cost very quickly.
Whidden Full Length (FL) bushing sizing die with click adjustable lock ring
https://www.whiddengunworks.com/click-adjustable-sizer-die/
Wilson Micro adjust Arbor seating die
https://lewilson.com/stainless-steel-bullet-seater-with-micrometer-adjustment/
K&M arbor press (for use with Arbor seating die)
https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/1017596836?pid=810114&utm_medium=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Reloading+-+Metallic+Reloading+Presses&utm_content=810114&cm_mmc=pf_ci_google-_-Reloading+-+Metallic+Reloading+Presses-_-K&M-_-810114&gclid=CjwKCAjwlovtBRBrEiwAG3XJ-wsHANRvau5m1YalfTSrw4SW6-A5GNTxuvRmTDarHM3CXYgqWGpgqBoCrMEQAvD_BwE
If you learn to become proficient using the techniques/methods outlined in the videos below, you’ll be way ahead of most of your peers starting out reloading, and you’ll be able to use the above tooling properly.
How to find headspace
How to find your lands (bullet touch distance)
I’m with gman. Redding body die and Lee collet. Add a mandrel die to set neck tension if you feel the need. If you go that way also get the undersized mandrel for the Lee die. Top it off the the Forster micrometer seating die and you’ll be set but the Lee bullet seater you get in the set works ok too. Just not such a pleasure to use or adjust but it still seats bullets.
Thanks for all the tips guys I really appreciate it. I think I’ll go with a basic RCBS kit to start and upgrade from there. The Whidden set looks sweet! I did buy a hornady headspace kit and comparator kit. Does bumping the shoulder effect accuracy? ie will my gun like a .002 vs .003? Also, if I over bump a case to .006, is the case trashed?
dgeesaman
Gold $$ Contributor
I have not found shoulder bump to be a “tuning” parameter. I like to take a case that fits the chamber snugly (light click when I lift the bolt) and use its base to shoulder length as the basis to push back .002”. Then I leave it set there as I load for that rifle chamber.
I’ve pushed back shoulder too far and just used them as warm up shots next time out. As long as the bump isn’t extreme, it should ignite correctly and come back into size with the other cases.
As for the dies, if I was buying a Whidden die for a factory chamber, I’d send off some fully formed brass and have the die made to match that chamber. But you’ll always need some kind of basic dies to get that brass reloaded a couple of times.
I’ve pushed back shoulder too far and just used them as warm up shots next time out. As long as the bump isn’t extreme, it should ignite correctly and come back into size with the other cases.
As for the dies, if I was buying a Whidden die for a factory chamber, I’d send off some fully formed brass and have the die made to match that chamber. But you’ll always need some kind of basic dies to get that brass reloaded a couple of times.
I'd throw Redding and Whidden into the mix too.
I just went through this same decision and ended up with a Forster Full Length Sizing Die (regular, not a bushing die), a Forster Benchrest Seating Die (not the micrometer die), and a Sinclair Mandrel die with the turning mandrel for .002" neck tension.
Overall, I'm happy with my purchase but wish I went with the micrometer seater, just to make bullet testing a little easier.
Some relevant videos:
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