Help a new guy out with my .308

[Nate253]

Hey guys I'm new to reloading and need some advice on why my shots keep shooting high..

I shoot a Remington 700 Varmint .308 with a Harris bipod and Nikon buck master scope. No other upgrades as of now.

I went out with my buddies to shoot yesterday and I sighted my gun in at 100 yards. My groupings weren't amazing but I'm a new shooter and was satisfied with 1 in groups. We decided to shoot at a piece of AR500 670 yards back.

Here is my load data.

My press is a RCBS single stage rock chucker supreme.

I'm using twice fired Winchester brass (bought the brass new factory load at the store). I have a RCBS ultra sonic cleaner and clean them with Hornady cleaning solution. The brass comes out looking good. I use a towel to dry them off and let them sit in my garage to air dry for a few days.

I lube them on a different towel and then deprime/resize the neck.

I then clean the primer pocket with my hand tool.

I trim the brass to make them all the same length.

I use CCI large rifle primers and seat them with my RCBS hand primer.

I am shooting the Hornady 168 gr AMAX BT. my powder I'm using at the moment is H4895. I'm measuring the powder with a RCBS mechanical scale and charge the rounds with 42 grains. (I'm trying to find varget powder but it is hard to come by here.)

I then seat the 168 gr AMAX. My COL is 2.800 give or take a thousandth.

I use the ballistic AE and when I put in all my data it gives my readings. I adjusted my scope and both my buddies were telling me I was shooting a few feet high.

Any advice on things I could do better would be greatly appreciated. My goal is to be able to shoot 1000 yards no problem.

Thank you

 

[minnesotamulisha]

Have you run your load through a chrony? Are you entering the correct speed into the App? If your speed is faster than what's entered, that could be it.

 

[dreever]

Ballistic program results won't jive with shooting off a bi-pod. If I input all the info and shoot off a front rest rear bag it's close. Off the bipod however it's always high. The only thing you can do is shoot and record your own dope for the next time.

Danny

 

[CatShooter]

Ballistic program results won't jive with shooting off a bi-pod. If I input all the info and shoot off a front rest rear bag it's close. Off the bipod however it's always high. The only thing you can do is shoot and record your own dope for the next time.

Danny

My bipod results are the same as my sand bag results.

 

[Sniper338]

HA! Im quite suprised no one found the big problem first post!!! Your biggest problem is your scope... ive had one of those scopes... cheaper scopes = everything is cheap about them... the problem is those scopes arent quality enough to track when you turn the knobs on the scope... if you zero it in and then move it up 10 and back down 10 your zero will be off. That scope is a cheapy... made for the weekend warrior that sights in his gun at 100 yards and never touches it again and never ahoots past 100 yards...

So when you try to dial in for what your dope is suppose to be the scipe really doesnt adjust correctly... you will have hell trying to shoot longer range with that scope. Like i said ive had one in the past... i know 100%...

For a budget scope that tracks perfectly and will last... very good quality for price... get an SWFA scope with perralex adjustmet... fixed 10x or so... these scopes are $399... then you will see a world of difference adjusting to shoot different ranges...

i reccomend the swfa fixed 10 pwer with parrallex adjustment in the mildot reticle and mil turrets... i have two of them myself... learn on that scope... you can shoot outto 1000 yards and beyond easily with a fixed 10 power.

all in the meantime LEARN about scopes and longer range shooting and reloading..

I got some good info if you pm me and take my advice to heart!

 

[CatShooter]

HA! Im quite suprised no one found the big problem first post!!! Your biggest problem is your scope... ive had one of those scopes... cheaper scopes = everything is cheap about them... the problem is those scopes arent quality enough to track when you turn the knobs on the scope... if you zero it in and then move it up 10 and back down 10 your zero will be off. That scope is a cheapy... made for the weekend warrior that sights in his gun at 100 yards and never touches it again and never ahoots past 100 yards...

So when you try to dial in for what your dope is suppose to be the scipe really doesnt adjust correctly... you will have hell trying to shoot longer range with that scope. Like i said ive had one in the past... i know 100%...

For a budget scope that tracks perfectly and will last... very good quality for price... get an SWFA scope with perralex adjustmet... fixed 10x or so... these scopes are $399... then you will see a world of difference adjusting to shoot different ranges...

i reccomend the swfa fixed 10 pwer with parrallex adjustment in the mildot reticle and mil turrets... i have two of them myself... learn on that scope... you can shoot outto 1000 yards and beyond easily with a fixed 10 power.

all in the meantime LEARN about scopes and longer range shooting and reloading..

I got some good info if you pm me and take my advice to heart!

HA!??

While the scope he has may not be the latest in Super Duper Killer Snipie scopes, it is a quality hunting scope and does NOT have the problems you claim.

His problems are elsewhere.

P.S... get a spell checker. I already have a headache and my eyes are bleeding

 

[Sniper338]

HA! Im quite suprised no one found the big problem first post!!! Your biggest problem is your scope... ive had one of those scopes... cheaper scopes = everything is cheap about them... the problem is those scopes arent quality enough to track when you turn the knobs on the scope... if you zero it in and then move it up 10 and back down 10 your zero will be off. That scope is a cheapy... made for the weekend warrior that sights in his gun at 100 yards and never touches it again and never ahoots past 100 yards...

So when you try to dial in for what your dope is suppose to be the scipe really doesnt adjust correctly... you will have hell trying to shoot longer range with that scope. Like i said ive had one in the past... i know 100%...

For a budget scope that tracks perfectly and will last... very good quality for price... get an SWFA scope with perralex adjustmet... fixed 10x or so... these scopes are $399... then you will see a world of difference adjusting to shoot different ranges...

i reccomend the swfa fixed 10 pwer with parrallex adjustment in the mildot reticle and mil turrets... i have two of them myself... learn on that scope... you can shoot outto 1000 yards and beyond easily with a fixed 10 power.

all in the meantime LEARN about scopes and longer range shooting and reloading..

I got some good info if you pm me and take my advice to heart!

HA!??

While the scope he has may not be the latest in Super Duper Killer Snipie scopes, it is a quality hunting scope and does NOT have the problems you claim.

His problems are elsewhere.

P.S... get a spell checker. I already have a headache and my eyes are bleeding

i wont argue, it is quite hard to type on my phone i wish i had a spell checker.

My advice, my opinion is mine, yours is yours. Its up to the OP to decide what to listen to. I can agree there are other issues, but the scope is a big issue too for precision longer range shooting.. A nikon buckmaster scope is not made for dialing dopes and longer range. Period... if you argue with that you probably would argue with a wall too...

Just like you i shoot a lot! But unlike you i do it at work and get paid for it!

 

[CharlieNC]

Step 1- Confirm every entry in the ballistic program is accurate, do not assume anything. I'm not familiar with the program you are using, but I have found on-line JBM is very accurate and you may want to compare to it as a basis.

Step 2- If you do not find a difference / problem from step 1, then it's probably something with the scope or the mounts.

 

[CatShooter]

Just like you i shoot a lot! But unlike you i do it at work and get paid for it!

I do too ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You don't seem to know much for someone that get paid to shoot.

 

[Sniper338]

Just like you i shoot a lot! But unlike you i do it at work and get paid for it!

I do too ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You don't seem to know much for someone that get paid to shoot.

I'm done, Good luck to the OP!

 

[Nate253]

Have you run your load through a chrony? Are you entering the correct speed into the App? If your speed is faster than what's entered, that could be it.

I did run my loads through a chrony and here is what I got

1. 2660
2. 2676
3. 2679
4. 2677
5. 2649

I let the barrel cool for maybe 5 minutes between each shot. I took the average and imputed it in my app.

 

[Nate253]

HA! Im quite suprised no one found the big problem first post!!! Your biggest problem is your scope... ive had one of those scopes... cheaper scopes = everything is cheap about them... the problem is those scopes arent quality enough to track when you turn the knobs on the scope... if you zero it in and then move it up 10 and back down 10 your zero will be off. That scope is a cheapy... made for the weekend warrior that sights in his gun at 100 yards and never touches it again and never ahoots past 100 yards...

So when you try to dial in for what your dope is suppose to be the scipe really doesnt adjust correctly... you will have hell trying to shoot longer range with that scope. Like i said ive had one in the past... i know 100%...

For a budget scope that tracks perfectly and will last... very good quality for price... get an SWFA scope with perralex adjustmet... fixed 10x or so... these scopes are $399... then you will see a world of difference adjusting to shoot different ranges...

i reccomend the swfa fixed 10 pwer with parrallex adjustment in the mildot reticle and mil turrets... i have two of them myself... learn on that scope... you can shoot outto 1000 yards and beyond easily with a fixed 10 power.

all in the meantime LEARN about scopes and longer range shooting and reloading..

I got some good info if you pm me and take my advice to heart!

I agree the scope isn't designed for long range applications and I'm in the process of buying a better scope. I've had my eye a vortex PST or HS-T scopes.

What has me confused though is why am I shooting high? I'm new but if
I was adjusting my scope up and it didn't give me the 104 clicks I needed wouldn't I be shooting low?

 

[Nate253]

Step 1- Confirm every entry in the ballistic program is accurate, do not assume anything. I'm not familiar with the program you are using, but I have found on-line JBM is very accurate and you may want to compare to it as a basis.

Step 2- If you do not find a difference / problem from step 1, then it's probably something with the scope or the mounts.

Here is the program I use.

 

[Patch700]

Here is what I have done in the past Nate to confirm if my data input is matching my data output and I only have access to a 100 yard range..

I take a 4x8 sheet of plywood (cardboard will suffice) and fasten it to the existing target backer and then apply a large piece of paper to it. (not needed if you use cardboard)

I then use a 4 foot level and draw a plumb line down the center of the 4x8 target and also incrementally put horizontal lines every foot from top to bottom.

With my rifle zeroed at 100 yards I will then take a look at what the data is telling me my elevation changes should be for lets say 700 yards , adjust your scope to that elevation and shoot at your same point of aim as you did when you zeroed the rifle for 100 yards.. Now you can take that new point of impact and compare it with what your data says you should be printing.

In example : If your data told you that you needed to come up 20moa from your 100 yard zero and after adjusting your elevation the 20 moa it now prints 30" high at 100 yards you can go back to your data and see what IT tells you the trajectory should be at 100 yards for a 700 yard zero as compared to what you are seeing on paper.

The plumb line that runs vertically down the center of the target will also help troubleshoot whether or not your scope is mounted properly with respect to being level... If after you adjusted your scope 20moa up and the group is not only printing high but also off to either the left or right then it is telling you it is not level.

This simple test will also confirm whether or not your scope is tracking properly once you return back to your 100 yard zero.

Good luck.

 

[Sniper338]

I agree the scope isn't designed for long range applications and I'm in the process of buying a better scope. I've had my eye a vortex PST or HS-T scopes.

What has me confused though is why am I shooting high? I'm new but if
I was adjusting my scope up and it didn't give me the 104 clicks I needed wouldn't I be shooting low?
[/quote]

The vortex viper pst is a pretty good scope, you would be fine with that too.

as far as the clicks go... that goes back to the scope not actually adjusting correctly for all the clicks... thats anyones guess...

as far as your reloading velocities go, thats not bad for a new reloader, but you will really want to hone your skills and case prep to try to close that gap a little more... consistant velocity shot to shot shows up on paper down range. As you continue to reload and get better and try different things you should be able to get your groups at 100 yards under an inch some.. i know you said you have a factory barrel, so it could be harder, but ive seen plenty factory barrels shoot sub one inch at 100 yards so im sure you can do it...

Lots of practice and continuation on learning! The reloaders forum is an excellent place to ask questions about reloading to learn what to do better! Case prep goes a long ways!!

 

[CharlieNC]

Have you run your load through a chrony? Are you entering the correct speed into the App? If your speed is faster than what's entered, that could be it.

I did run my loads through a chrony and here is what I got

1. 2660
2. 2676
3. 2679
4. 2677
5. 2649

I let the barrel cool for maybe 5 minutes between each shot. I took the average and imputed it in my app.

What about the BC? Are you properly using G1 vs G7?

 

[Nate253]

Have you run your load through a chrony? Are you entering the correct speed into the App? If your speed is faster than what's entered, that could be it.

I did run my loads through a chrony and here is what I got

1. 2660
2. 2676
3. 2679
4. 2677
5. 2649

I let the barrel cool for maybe 5 minutes between each shot. I took the average and imputed it in my app.

What about the BC? Are you properly using G1 vs G7?

From what I understand yes I am. The Hornady AMAX are BT and I made sure to imput them as G7

 

[CharlieNC]

Sounds like your app may be using the G7 value as G1. Try JBM and simply select the bullet from the menu and let it supply the proper values to compare to your app.

 

[Barlow]

H4895 is good powder for your 308, I have burned a bunch of it in the same case. Good luck, Barlow

 

[dreever]

I've known "Cat Shooter" from way back when he was "Pablito" and I'll vouch for him knowing his S**t when it comes to shooting. We are both older than dirt, and have the scars to prove it! I do have four cats and two dogs so we'll have to disagree on that, but that''s another subject entirely. LOL!.

Danny