Heavy bullet 22-250 and an 8 twist barrel.

[jhuskey]

This is my second post. I have asked on other boards and no response.
I am considering something in 224 caliber moving faster than 223 or 223 ai for longer range flat shooting on coyotes. I do crop damage control shooting. I've got the hogs down, 223, 6x47ai, 6.5 Grendel, and 6.8spc. I've got bigger game down too. 308 to 338LM.
The problem I have at night is range estimation on coyotes where the margin of error is more critical than with other animals. Friends use 243 with 85 grain bullets and I have in the past as well.

Since I have several hundred pieces of 22-250 brass, dies, and more bullets than I need for the 223, and I have a Hart 8 twist barrel, I was thinking...... heavy barrel fast 22-250 with 75, 77, and 80 grain bullets... that I can use with the surefire socom suppressor.... I've got all the parts to do this with. Other calibers that might be better choices, I don't have the parts..

I need guidance from some people who have tried this caliber and combo. All comments are appreciated.

 

[rkittine]

A couple of the guys here pointed out to me with regard to my questions about the .22-250 to go to the main page of AccurateShooter, click on .22-250 on the left hand side and you will get about 8 pages of great information on the caliber, twist rates, prokectiles etc. I am learning a lot from that information as well as from the guys on the site who are always happy to help.

Happy New Year, Bob

 

[TZaun]

How far is longer range shooting? If that means under 400 yards, I'd go with the 64 gr. Berger Varmint. It'll be flat shooting and you won't have many exit holes on a coyote if you hit in the chest or shoulders. I've yet to try any of the heavier target bullets on coyotes but would expect them to punch through more frequently. Hopefully somebody can give you real world experiences from many hits with those types of bullets. I personally like walking up to the coyote and not seeing any blood on it.

 

[TZaun]

I should add that those bullets might be awfully explosive if you hit a coyote close. They may be a bit too heavy for close up work. I call mine in so my shots are usually 200 or less and mainly around 50 yards. I personally use the 52 gr. in my 22BR for that reason. Tried other bullets but really like the performance of the 52 gr. Berger Varmint. Even at 50 yards, if I hit it solid, no exit at all.

 

[rockcreek1]

jhuskey,

I am currently building basically the same thing, just waiting on my reamer. I went with the 1:7 twist just in case I decide to try the 80-90 grain bullets but the 1:8 should work great with the 75's.

My rifle will be:
Dan Muller 1:7 Twist Barrel
Finished at 20"
TBAC 223CB Suppressor
Throated for the 75gr Berger VLD Bullet
QuickLoad says I should be able to get ~3100~ fps


Keep us posted on how your build comes along, it sounds like a neat project.


Jim

 

[jhuskey]

Thanks all so far. I will read the 22-250 section suggested.
Flamethrower,
Your 64 grain berger "sounds" like my desired result. We do ok to 150 yards with 223, but 150 to 400, we see a lot, and kill very few. Where we kill 3-400 feral hogs, we get 50-60 coyotes a year, and this is not making any dent. We have daylight pack sightings weekly. Cattle farmers here have year round predator permits. Fawn mortality is high, our pets are endangered, the coyotes eat off some of our back porches and some get shot from the kitchen window. Coyotes ARE a challenge. Longer range flatter shooting cartridge selection I hope will give me more edge.

Again, will read the 22-250 article pointed out. Thanks.

 

[TZaun]

We do ok to 150 yards with 223, but 150 to 400, we see a lot, and kill very few.

I know exactly what you mean. I tried the 40 gr. V-Max in a 22-250 for a year and it just couldn't get the job done from 200 on out. If a coyote would hang up out there at 200-300 I would knock it down and watch it get back up a minute later and try to run off. That doesn't happen now with the 52 gr. Berger Varmint. Pound for pound, I don't know of anything tougher to kill than a coyote. I try to get em to go straight down and not even twitch.

 

[LRPV]

I built a 22-250AI after my buddy did a straight 22-250. I'm getting around 200fps more speed than he does comparing our two rifles shooting 75Amax. I would do the Ackley again. You should be able to get 34-3500fps with 75vld or Amax. I can't speak to fur friendliness of the Amax because I simply haven't shot enough coyotes with it. It expands well on prairie dogs and it hasn't let me down yet. I know some guys prefer the berger over the Amax because they've had the Amax explode on a shoulder. Running numbers on paper, I should be able to hold on the middle of a coyote out to 400yds and kill it. A 6-284 would probably mimic laser beam a little better but also provides more recoil. Have fun.

 

[benchracer]

First, I am a bit confused as to what, exactly you want from your 22-250. I notice that you mention you are killing very few coyotes from 150 to 400 yards, but you do not mention why that is. Are you emphasizing flat trajectory because of misses at those distances? Or are you killing very few coyotes at those distances because of some other issue such as terminal performance or inadequate energy retention? Is wind drift an issue for you? Also, do you care about the pelts or do you just want a dead coyote?

I notice you also mention use of a suppressor. I know that many folks who use suppressors tend to go with shorter barrels. If you do that with a 22-250, it WILL cost you velocity. What barrel length do you intend to use?

I have only shot my 22-250 at paper, so far, so I can't speak for terminal performance. From a ballistic standpoint, however, I can offer some observations. With a 12 twist or faster, the 53 grain VMAX can shoot flatter than even the 75 grain AMAX out to 600 yards or so. It can be shot accurately at velocities between 3800 and 3950 from a 26" barrel, depending on the powder you are using. I would expect it to be an explosive bullet and probably a pretty effective coyote killer at extended ranges.

Though my 12 twist 22-250 can't stabilize the 75 AMAX, it can, and does, stabilize the 69 grain SMK. Using Superformance, it averages 3579 and delivers sub-.5 MOA accuracy. RL-17 does well, also, but with less velocity. It doesn't shoot as flat as the VMAX, but stays within .5 to 1 MOA out to 600, while drifting less and delivering more energy.

Pushed at 3400, the 75 grain AMAX shoots nearly as flat as the 53 VMAX @ 3800, has much less wind drift, and retains as much energy at 600 yards as the 53 VMAX does at 400 yards. I would expect it to have enough mass to easily pass through a 'yote, so hide damage could be an issue if you want to save the pelts. As previously mentioned, if you want to go with the heavy 75 or 80 grain AMAX's, 22-250AI would seem to be the way to go.

 

[jhuskey]

Benchracer,
I am looking for flatter trajectory to compensate for nighttime range estimation errors. I want dead coyotes and not concerned about pelt damage.
Having all the parts to build a fast twist 22-250, I needed to ask people with knowledge which would be you guys..... note, I have all the parts on hand, even though may it be a bad idea.
Consensus so far is there are better calibers for the "laser", and I have enough experience with fast cases, for example, a 22-243. Its a laser that was expensive. As far as suppressors, it's like putting a 308 rated can on a magnum and can damaging.
Same with the 243, 243ai, and 6-284 on expenses. A 308 suppressor on those calibers is no damage problem with them though.
I'm real clear about what a pain it is to add 8" to a 26" barrel and try to use it fast in any kind of enclosure whether vehicle or blind, and it's no fun walking with one at night either. You bring a lot to the table with the comment on velocity loss with a shorter barrel.
I was and am hoping for a mid level compromise with the smaller 22-250 case, that will be more than a 223, rather than a 308 based over bore case.
I was thinking smaller case, less cost, but improved trajectory. You guys shoot it down, no problem, I'd rather you guys save me the time and money I'd waste.
My best coyote rifle WAS a featherweight model 70 in 243... I wish I still had it.

 

[benchracer]

After doing some research and running some numbers in QL, I believe the Winchester Featherweight in .243 you mentioned to be about perfect for what you are after. Winchester currently makes a Featherweight Compact with 20" barrel. If you load to .308 Win. pressures (62k psi) you can launch a 58 grain VMAX at 3670 with RL-17, which will give you a 387 yard Maximum Point Blank Range, according to JBM Ballistics.

Seems to me you could do some trading or selling and obtain what you are after with a minimum of expense.

 

[jhuskey]

Benchracer,
Thanks much. I see a 243 barrel coming to the house. One of my guys is going to get a nice Christmas gift of some 22-250 brass. Reading all the posts let's me know this is a great place to be.
Thanks much to all of you guys who responded. Krieger says 4 months on barrels so it will be a bit before you guys get a status report.
Again, thanks.
JW

 

[rockcreek1]

jhuskey,

If your 22-250 brass is Lapua, I am interested.


Thanks
Jim

 

[MarkS]

JW,

If you are thing of a 6mm now. A 6mmAI with a 87gr Vmax around 3500f/s, is a super killer. Also a 70gr Blitzking at 3850 f/s is like a lighting bolt. If you are going with the 243 Win, give these bullets a try.

I have gone to the 6BR for everything now. With 87gr Vmax or 70 BK.

Mark Schronce

 

[jhuskey]

Rock Creek,
It's a mix of Remington, some fired the 3rd time, Federal, and Frontier, no lapua. I don't think you want them.

Mark, thanks, I will try those bullets. It's going to be 4 months before my barrel of choice arrives, so, back in the waiting game.

Thanks all.

 

[rockcreek1]

Thanks. I'll go ahead and order a box and some Bergers.

Thanks again & good luck,
Jim

 

[wapiti25]

If 22 cal is wanted and a short barrel, a 22 BR is nice. You use Lapua br brass and neck down, uses less powder than the 22-250 and generates good velocity. I shoot a 1-8 twist 223 with 80gr bullets at 600 yds but they are not flat shooting just good for wind drift in the 22 cal, 2870 FT/sec. You should make a list of bullets you want to shoot and play with ballistic programs and see what fills your needs. I would look at something like a Berger 70 gr 22 cal if you shoot more than 400 yds.

 

[snowpro440]

Have you look at the .22 Cheetah MK 1 ? Or .22-243 Very fast and flat , zero @250 and Hold right on a standing groundhog almost to 400 Just like a lazer...I'm pushing 52gr bergers 4000fps.

 

[M14AMU]

I have a 1-7" twist Douglas barrel on a M700 22/250 and I shoot Sierra 90 gr. HPBT! It's extremely accurate to 800 yards and if it shot any better I'd mess my drawers!!

 

[MoaFlat]

I have a 1-7" twist Douglas barrel on a M700 22/250 and I shoot Sierra 90 gr. HPBT! It's extremely accurate to 800 yards and if it shot any better I'd mess my drawers!!

Looking to develop my 7t 22-250 with 90s or 88s any starting load recommendations?