headspace/shoulder bump issue plus ram hitting bottom of die

[Kracken McGraw]

just set your full length sizing die to only size the neck and not bump the shoulder. it is trial and error. just back the die off and then slowly size a case and look at the neck and you will see how much has been sized. little by little adjust the die down until you are sizing most of the neck. press should do this easily. if you feel more resistance then you are at the shoulder.

have you tried chambering one of your fired cases?

Thanks, yes once fired factory brass rechambers smoothly. On virgin brass do you f/l resize with die touching shell holder?

 

[fguffey]

but readers digest version, checking headspace by bumping the shoulder a little bit and putting in gun without firing pin assembly.

My cases do not have head space and there is no one on this form that can bump a shoulder back with a full length sizing die that has body support. And then there is a larger group that has no clue what 'bump' means. I have bump presses, my bump presses bump twice; once on the way up and once on the way down. And there is not one member on this forum that can tell me what the ram is going between the two bumps.

F. Guffey

 

[jimmymac]

May have crushed the bottom of the shoulder. Check to see if you feel a burr at the shoulder body junction and check the diameter at that point before and after.

Of all the opinions put forth here, this one makes sense especially in light of the fact that you purposely over sized the cases. The brass has to go somewhere.

This happened to my neighbor when he started reloading. It was barely perceptible but it was there and caused him some chambering grief. He kept thinking it was a shoulder bump issue when in fact but it was an oversizing issue and some brass was migrating to the shoulder body junction and making the OD at that point too great.

 

[dellet]

The easiest way to narrow down length vs diameter problems is the take the bolt out of the rifle and insert a piece of questionable brass in the chamber with finger pressure. Point the barrel up. It should drop out with gravity.

Then work on setting the shoulder. If it’s shorter than when it came out, and the brass fall out under its own weight, it’s not the brass playing with your head, it’s the bolt.

 

[ttfreestyle]

Wow.... waiting for "guffey" to find this one. It's like cheese on a mouse trap !.!.!

Reloaders are going to take a hell of a shellacking when he does.... lol
Donovan

Careful what you wish for!!! Oops toooo late.

 

[rockwind1]

i believe i have found the relatively obvious problem, i think (not totally sure yet)

1. i think ejector spring, as mentioned by a couple folks

2. and the biggie, i took dropped the magazine follower and spring and wow, the bolt is super free (insert embarressed emoji face). my defense lawyer suggested i include the video i watched on how to do this (nothing in it about magazine or ejector)

2.5 it is still somewhat stiff even with the magazine spring out with any case in it, although the resized case is easiest but i still can't get the bolt handle to just drop? hmmm



3. i did take those measurements on the web and just below shoulder. the resized case is definetely smaller.
the fireformed case is

length 2.015
at head/web .4715
just below shoulder .458
neck .346

resized is
length 2.019 (is this concerning?) it is now longer than max saami length after re sizing?
web .468
just below shoulder .454
neck .33 (this gives me .001 of neck tension, i would go for more but i only have one neck bushing right now and ordering takes forever)

the shoulder does not feel nor measure to have a doughnut

4. i don't think the die is the issue because i was trying to bump back a shoulder that has already been bumped back further than a new case, going any further would be ridiculous and the base of the case would get less and less sized,,,and i don't need to anyway obviously, so i think the ram hitting the bottom of the die is a non-issue

5 who is this guffy person? sounds ominous.

below is the video i watched for info on checking headspace like this, he doesn't mentioned the ejector or dropping magazine (but his rifle is a single shot, there is no magazine) but i don't understand how his bolt handle is so loose if his ejector is still in.

my fired case chamber ok, a little stiff, same with a loaded round. a brand new lapua case was fairly tight, this fireformed resized brass chambers easiest of all.

i only have new lapua brass to try, i don't have any of this federal brass in new condition. i shot a bunch of fgmm and decided to practice with it before moving onto the nice lapua stuff.

6 this brass has only been fired once.
7. it has only been fired from this gun
8. it is the original bolt in the gun, has about 2000 rounds of smooth operation, with the very occassional light primer strike after i put in the new trigger, hasnt done this in like 500 rds

anyway, i think it may be the ejector pushing on the case,,how is it supposed to fall easily with that tension? but still working on it. appreciate all comments, all very constructive and good ideas.

 

[fguffey]

Again, my cases do not have head space and all of my cam over presses are bump presses.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

And I have to ask; Why doesn't the reloader in the video know the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face?

 

[dmoran]

My Shoulders Don't Move
(a sole alliance of fguffey)​

 

[dkhunt14]

Again, my cases do not have head space and all of my cam over presses are bump presses.

F. Guffey

If you cant bump a shoulder back, why have a BUMP PRESS? Mat

 

[KMart]

Is your F/L sizing die a type S with a bushing? Or a standard type F/L sizer?

I will rephrase this and go from a question to a statement. If you are sizing with a bushing type die, there will always be a small portion of the case neck that is not sized near the neck/shoulder junction. This unsized portion of the neck can cause the drag you are feeling.

 

[LHSmith]

His die box P/n is for a bushing die.
I just checked all my Remingtons that have a mag and despite the pressure from the mag spring, all the bolts fall from their own weight without any help.* with FP assembly removed and empty chamber.

 

[LHSmith]

I would make sure the lug recesses are clean and make sure to check the bolt for rub marks (scope base screws too long)

 

[Metal God]

And I have to ask; Why doesn't the reloader in the video know the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face?

Because when sizing the way he is sizing his brass you don't need that measurement . If you were not using a fired case from your rifle you may need that chamber measurement but when done as he is in the video there is no need for the actual chamber measurement . Your welcome It's always good to help out a fellow reloader when they don't quite understand something , glad I could help you out there Guffey

 

[Cloudrepair]

i believe i have found the relatively obvious problem, i think (not totally sure yet)

1. i think ejector spring, as mentioned by a couple folks

2. and the biggie, i took dropped the magazine follower and spring and wow, the bolt is super free (insert embarressed emoji face). my defense lawyer suggested i include the video i watched on how to do this (nothing in it about magazine or ejector)

2.5 it is still somewhat stiff even with the magazine spring out with any case in it, although the resized case is easiest but i still can't get the bolt handle to just drop? hmmm



3. i did take those measurements on the web and just below shoulder. the resized case is definetely smaller.
the fireformed case is

length 2.015
at head/web .4715
just below shoulder .458
neck .346

resized is
length 2.019 (is this concerning?) it is now longer than max saami length after re sizing?
web .468
just below shoulder .454
neck .33 (this gives me .001 of neck tension, i would go for more but i only have one neck bushing right now and ordering takes forever)

the shoulder does not feel nor measure to have a doughnut

4. i don't think the die is the issue because i was trying to bump back a shoulder that has already been bumped back further than a new case, going any further would be ridiculous and the base of the case would get less and less sized,,,and i don't need to anyway obviously, so i think the ram hitting the bottom of the die is a non-issue

5 who is this guffy person? sounds ominous.

below is the video i watched for info on checking headspace like this, he doesn't mentioned the ejector or dropping magazine (but his rifle is a single shot, there is no magazine) but i don't understand how his bolt handle is so loose if his ejector is still in.

my fired case chamber ok, a little stiff, same with a loaded round. a brand new lapua case was fairly tight, this fireformed resized brass chambers easiest of all.

i only have new lapua brass to try, i don't have any of this federal brass in new condition. i shot a bunch of fgmm and decided to practice with it before moving onto the nice lapua stuff.

6 this brass has only been fired once.
7. it has only been fired from this gun
8. it is the original bolt in the gun, has about 2000 rounds of smooth operation, with the very occassional light primer strike after i put in the new trigger, hasnt done this in like 500 rds

anyway, i think it may be the ejector pushing on the case,,how is it supposed to fall easily with that tension? but still working on it. appreciate all comments, all very constructive and good ideas.

a lot of good advise but checking the way you are you will need to remove ejector to feel only the case.

 

[hogpatrol]