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Headspace question

mausermanbob

I've been reloading for about 1 year.
I have a Lee breach lock Challenger loader.
One of the things that I can't get my head wrapped around is on some of my 223 brass that I pick up off the range when I go to resize it with a full length resizer I can't seem to get the headspace below a certain size, according to my Hornady headspace comparator.
Say a range cartridge headspaces at 1.465, no matter how far I crank the die down I can't get it to resize down any lower than like 1.463.
My bolt action rifle shoots the best at like 1.461.
This is a beginner's question, but why is it that some brass I cannot get to headspace below a certain amount no matter how far down I crank the die.
Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated.
 
Are you using the A330 comparator body? Are you measuring with a spent primer in the case? My fired sized and AR brass is 1.4580 and fits ammo and case checker(with A330 body). New LC brass 1.4530, New Rem 1.4550. I size with a RCBS standard FL die and RCBS shell holder(I will not mix brands, have had problems with that). Brass sized this way fits all 4 of my 223's(2 AR,2bolts).
 

mausermanbob,​

The standard distance from the top of the shell holder to the base of the case is 0.125 inches. Have you checked yours?

Are you turning the sizing die down enough to ensure full contact between the shell holder and the bottom of the die at the top of the sizing stroke with a case in place?

Can you size factory ammo cases fired in your rifle to your desired dimensions? As a first step, work with cases that have only been fired in your rifle. Cases picked up on the range are an unknown quantity, therefore many people either avoid range pick-ups or take extra steps to prepare them.

If a standard die and shell holder combination cannot reduce the case base to datum of a case to the desired dimensions, you may have to consider removing a few thousandths of an inch from the shell holder or the die.
 
Coyotefurharvester said:
Are you using the A330 comparator body? Are you measuring with a spent primer in the case? My fired sized and AR brass is 1.4580 and fits ammo and case checker(with A330 body). New LC brass 1.4530, New Rem 1.4550. I size with a RCBS standard FL die and RCBS shell holder(I will not mix brands, have had problems with that). Brass sized this way fits all 4 of my 223's(2 AR,2bolts).
Click to expand...
Hey coyote

I checked and I am using the a330 comparator body.
I just now went out and took a brass that I had resized at 1.4620, turned the die almost down as far as it would go resized that cartridge and still came out with 1.4620.
It's like the die is decapping the cartridge and maybe knocking off a half a thousandths and that's it.
I thought if it cranked it down far enough that it would flatten the shoulder flat but it's just not making much of a change.
 
don't complicate it if it will shoot and eject your ok, for accuracy I would start with some new brass and work from there
 
stopping at just contacting the shell holder with the bottom of the resizing die is not enough.Adjust the die so the press slightly cams-over at the bottom of the ram movement.
 
Depending on the flexibility of the press, it might have to cam over a fair amount to take all the slack out of the system.

As suggested, check your shell holder.While the standard shell holder dimension is .125, it's not uncommon to see them .004 off from this...especially Lee and Hornady shell holders. Also, check your shoulder bump w/o the decapping stem or expander. If the die sizes the neck excessively and/or the brass is very hard, when the expander comes back through the neck it can pull the shoulder forward a bit.
 
AlNyhus said:
Depending on the flexibility of the press, it might have to cam over a fair amount to take all the slack out of the system.

As suggested, check your shell holder.While the standard shell holder dimension is .125, it's not uncommon to see them .004 off from this...especially Lee and Hornady shell holders. Also, check your shoulder bump w/o the decapping stem or expander. If the die sizes the neck excessively and/or the brass is very hard, when the expander comes back through the neck it can pull the shoulder forward a bit.
Click to expand...
Bingo... Al beat me to it.
 
txtaxman said:

mausermanbob,​

The standard distance from the top of the shell holder to the base of the case is 0.125 inches. Have you checked yours?

Are you turning the sizing die down enough to ensure full contact between the shell holder and the bottom of the die at the top of the sizing stroke with a case in place?

Can you size factory ammo cases fired in your rifle to your desired dimensions? As a first step, work with cases that have only been fired in your rifle. Cases picked up on the range are an unknown quantity, therefore many people either avoid range pick-ups or take extra steps to prepare them.

If a standard die and shell holder combination cannot reduce the case base to datum of a case to the desired dimensions, you may have to consider removing a few thousandths of an inch from the shell holder or the die.
Click to expand...
Txtaxman
I will check those dimensions that you spoke of thanks for the thought.
I think I am getting a full stroke but I will check that as well.
I have picked up some factory fresh Lapua brass and I am going to load some of that as a test.
And I will look into removing a few thousands of an inch from the shell holder or the die.
I'm starting to think that some of the brass I've picked up is for some reason fire formed in such a way that it loses some properties that are allowing me to resize it.
Just a thought.
Thanks for your help
 
AlNyhus said:
Depending on the flexibility of the press, it might have to cam over a fair amount to take all the slack out of the system.

As suggested, check your shell holder.While the standard shell holder dimension is .125, it's not uncommon to see them .004 off from this...especially Lee and Hornady shell holders. Also, check your shoulder bump w/o the decapping stem or expander. If the die sizes the neck excessively and/or the brass is very hard, when the expander comes back through the neck it can pull the shoulder forward a bit.
Click to expand...
AINyhus
I am going to check my setup to make sure I'm getting a full cam in.
What you mentioned about the expander coming back through the neck and pulling the shoulder forward a bit is something that would make sense in this case.
I used Hornady one shot to lube the cases I also clean the inside of the die and the expander with mineral spirits and some steel wool, then hit it with some One Shot as well
But it makes sense that the expander could still be pulling the shoulder forward a bit when it's coming out.
 
mausermanbob said:
Yes the brass is working in my rifle and I think you hit on a good point for me, I think I'm making it more complicated and losing the fun part
Click to expand...
While we all at times overthink something, in reloading it is important to get the resizing right. Depending on the application, it may not need to be benchrest perfect, but needs to be right and under control.
You're asking the right question.
 
mausermanbob said:
My bolt action rifle shoots the best at like 1.461.
Click to expand...
I keep a record of the following measurements for each rifle I shoot and load for:

1. case head to datum where I can just feel contact when closing the bolt (and this is done with a stripped bolt and the primer removed from the case)

2. case head to datum that I set my sizing die for that rifle

3. case head to datum for fired brass

You can accelerate the number of firings it takes to obtain 1. by setting your sizing die high. The will move the shoulder forward and increase the case head to datum length.

If you use a good quality lube and apply it consistently, sizing 0.002" shorter than dimension 1. will work perfectly well. I set my sizing die for 0.001" less than dimension 1 and never have any issues or contact when closing the bolt. YMMV
 
mausermanbob said:
Yes the brass is working in my rifle and I think you hit on a good point for me, I think I'm making it more complicated and losing the fun part
Click to expand...
there is a lot to learn yes, depending on the rifle and what me or you r using it for.... getting cases for a good fit is a good practice, it's a must for accuracy again depending on the rifle and what your expectations are, but don't stop asking questions it's always good to ask and learn, your learning chamber dimensions which is great, there are a lot of good people on this site that will help, sometimes I over complicate things, but chamber dimensions needs to be learned and it goes a long way in the accuracy game
 
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