Headspace chamber tool

[Sigfla]

Wish I had the ability to machine down a No Go Gauge to use as a representat

Are you placing the test case on the bolt face already behind the extractor and then closing the bolt stripped of firing pin and ejector plunger, and without the test case first having to fight its way past the extractor?

It's a Remington bolt. I used a Sinclair tool and removed the ejector and took it completely apart.

 

[Richard Coody]

well to me headspace measurements mean nothing. SAAMI means nothing. your rifles.chamber is just that. After the first few firings your brass fits it. wildcat or normal doesn't really matter.

i set headspace with a set of go/no go gauges on my savages. After that and with all other rifles i measure fired brass with the hornady headspace gauge and set up a 1 to 2 thousandth shoulder bump. now if there is absurd growth in my fired brass then obviously i would check that out.

one caveat to that. With new brass it may take 2 to 3 or more firings to fully fireform the cases. i don't bother setting the shoulder bump until that fired brass shoulder measurement stabilizes. i just set my full length die to size the neck and stop short.of the shoulder until then.

 

[Ron Blain]

I am not sure how you offset the zero on those digitals except by using a .006 feeler gage.

The one pictured above has a zero button which I use.

On another note I have checked a few RCBS and they have been +/- 0.001" from nominal. I like the RCBS case gauges.

Ron

 

[ireload2]

The RCBS tool has a drawback being so expensive yet on works for one cartridge.
The Hornady tool is a bit more flexible yet still requires a gunsmith gage to set it if you want the SAAMI number.
I put together a spreadsheet that permit calculation of the SAMMI style dimension to the datum diameter for CIP cartridges. You need a headspace gage with a similar shoulder angle to set the zero. But you can check many odd metric cases for the chamber length.

The one pictured above has a zero button which I use.

On another note I have checked a few RCBS and they have been +/- 0.001" from nominal. I like the RCBS case gauges.

Ron

 

[ireload2]

You are wrong. It is easy find brass that does not match your chamber. Now tell me is the brass wrong or is it your rifle when you fire a round and the case head comes off? You need to know the fit BEFORE you start shooting and ruin a lot of brass.

well to me headspace measurements mean nothing. SAAMI means nothing. your rifles.chamber is just that. After the first few firings your brass fits it. wildcat or normal doesn't really matter.

i set headspace with a set of go/no go gauges on my savages. After that and with all other rifles i measure fired brass with the hornady headspace gauge and set up a 1 to 2 thousandth shoulder bump. now if there is absurd growth in my fired brass then obviously i would check that out.

one caveat to that. With new brass it may take 2 to 3 or more firings to fully fireform the cases. i don't bother setting the shoulder bump until that fired brass shoulder measurement stabilizes. i just set my full length die to size the neck and stop short.of the shoulder until then.

 

[Ron Blain]

The RCBS tool has a drawback being so expensive yet on works for one cartridge.
The Hornady tool is a bit more flexible yet still requires a gunsmith gage to set it if you want the SAAMI number.
I put together a spreadsheet that permit calculation of the SAMMI style dimension to the datum diameter for CIP cartridges. You need a headspace gage with a similar shoulder angle to set the zero. But you can check many odd metric cases for the chamber length.

I agree very much. The RCBS Precision Mic is not exactly an economy tool and is cartridge specific. Most of the tools I have were bought during the early 90s as part of a gun shop my wife and I owned. I was also fortunate in that while not a "mechanical guy" I had access to a sweet prototype machine shop and some of the best tool and die makers as well as mechanical engineers in the business. Before I retired I had all my gauging checked.

The Hornady tool is really a very good tool and once you have compared it to an actual head space gauge you can figure on good numbers. Additionally unlike the RCBS tool the Hornady tool opens the door to checking a wide range of cartridges. I like the idea of your spreadsheet too, pretty slick.

Ron

 

[Richard Coody]

You are wrong. It is easy find brass that does not match your chamber. Now tell me is the brass wrong or is it your rifle when you fire a round and the case head comes off? You need to know the fit BEFORE you start shooting and ruin a lot of brass.

well i really don't understand why anyone would put brass that doesn't match their.chamber.in their rifle.

guess they must do it all the time but i certainly have never experienced it.

so maybe those with little experience or common sense need these tools.

i would never resize to saami specs. continuing down that path is destined to short brass life and possible case head separation.

i will continue to do what works for me.

 

[Webster]

You are wrong. It is easy find brass that does not match your chamber. Now tell me is the brass wrong or is it your rifle when you fire a round and the case head comes off? You need to know the fit BEFORE you start shooting and ruin a lot of brass.

Are you implying that I can buy new unloaded or loaded brass that should not be fired in a rifle until I measure many of the case dimensions? There have been billions of rounds fired in rifles without measuring them and reloaded successfully many times.

 

[1lnbrdg]

If you are full-length resizing, it should be an easy issue to figure out just the headspace measurement.

I haven't full-length resized a fired case yet that it doesn't make the case grow in length when the bottom portion of the case is resized.

When sizing the fired case, start with the die set about .100 off the top of the case holder and then work the die down until the stripped bolt will close on the case, measure case and that is your number.

That's for just the headspace issue if that is what it is.

 

[Texan]

I agree very much. The RCBS Precision Mic is not exactly an economy tool and is cartridge specific.

The Hornady tool is really a very good tool and once you have compared it to an actual head space gauge you can figure on good numbers. Additionally unlike the RCBS tool the Hornady tool opens the door to checking a wide range of cartridges.

Totally agree.

I'm sure the RCBS mics are great, but unnecessary (and expensive) if you already have the comparator.

 

[Texan]

i would never resize to saami specs.

Sure about that?

I think what you mean is that you don't want to size down much further than YOUR chamber's dimension, which may be on the high side, but still within SAAMI.

Everybody here wants good case life, but it's still good to make certain that you're within the headspace limits, which is what ireload2 stated.

 

[Richard Coody]

Sure about that?

I think what you mean is that you don't want to size down much further than YOUR chamber's dimension, which may be on the high side, but still within SAAMI.

Everybody here wants good case life, but it's still good to make certain that you're within the headspace limits, which is what ireload2 stated.

what i mean is that i would not use a saami case gauge or any other such tool to decide how to resize my brass.

i know what i want and i know how to get it.

i have done enough necking up and necking down and moving shoulders and fire forming for my wildcats to know just how unimportant those saami specs are in reality.

 

[Ron Blain]

what i mean is that i would not use a saami case gauge or any other such tool to decide how to resize my brass.

i know what i want and i know how to get it.

i have done enough necking up and necking down and moving shoulders and fire forming for my wildcats to know just how unimportant those saami specs are in reality.

Richard, while in your case I agree with you at the same time I would not discount the importance of SAAMI specifications especially when it comes to the novice and new shooter or hand loader. SAAMI is moot in most cases for the experienced hand loader who has been developing loads for the last 40 years and anyway SAAMI specifications do not apply to a wildcat cartridge unless the cartridge is eventually adopted by the shooting sports foundation. I would be a little hard pressed to suggest to the new hand loader that published tested load data and cartridge specifications are unimportant. What is important is that you do what works for you an experienced hand loader. Very few if any who are new to the shooting sports begin with a wildcat cartridge. Many of us shoot for years with everyday standardized cartridges before we venture into the world of wildcat cartridges and many never venture beyond the standardized cartridges. The fact that you have no use for SAAMI specifications or data does not necessarily make that data unimportant in reality, only in your opinion for your applications.

Ron

 

[Richard Coody]

Richard, while in your case I agree with you at the same time I would not discount the importance of SAAMI specifications especially when it comes to the novice and new shooter or hand loader. SAAMI is moot in most cases for the experienced hand loader who has been developing loads for the last 40 years and anyway SAAMI specifications do not apply to a wildcat cartridge unless the cartridge is eventually adopted by the shooting sports foundation. I would be a little hard pressed to suggest to the new hand loader that published tested load data and cartridge specifications are unimportant. What is important is that you do what works for you an experienced hand loader. Very few if any who are new to the shooting sports begin with a wildcat cartridge. Many of us shoot for years with everyday standardized cartridges before we venture into the world of wildcat cartridges and many never venture beyond the standardized cartridges. The fact that you have no use for SAAMI specifications or data does not necessarily make that data unimportant in reality, only in your opinion for your applications.

Ron

now SAAMI is very important for ammunition manufacturers. they know if they produce their product within that specification range then it should have no problem functioning in any rifle chambered in that cartridge. That is extremely important to the consumer.

but as a reloader i am sure you would not want to size your cases to the dimensions of those mass produced cartridges. if you do brass life will be very short and you just might experience that case head separation

as far as using the load data and COL in reloading manuals. I highly recommend it as a great starting point. i believe i have a.copy of all of them and use them often.

this thread is about headspace/chamber tools. Personally i feel the stoney point now called the hornady headspace gauge does exactly what i want and is all i need.

i feel no need to know the dimensions of my chamber to the .0005. if i did i would do a casting

as far as setting your die by chambering brass and slowly adjusting your die. i have done it. in fact once i have my .001 shoulder bump dialed in i check to make sure that brass chambers easily.

when i used that method i found it very easy to put in too much shoulder bump. when you get to the sweet spot just a tiny adjustment moves that shoulder a bunch. Checking my fired brass i found i was easily bumping the shoulder .003 or more. gave up that method.

 

[Ron Blain]

I agree Richard. Where I have a slight problem is with cartridges like .308 Winchester and .223 Remington in that I have several rifles in each caliber and keeping track of what I am loading for what.

Ron

 

[Richard Coody]

I agree Richard. Where I have a slight problem is with cartridges like .308 Winchester and .223 Remington in that I have several rifles in each caliber and keeping track of what I am loading for what.

Ron

well i always have dedicated brass for each rifle and a log book with all the load development information and what load and bullet made the grade for each rifle.

if you are loading plinking ammo then size for the tightest chamber. i just don't do that.

 

[Ron Blain]

well i always have dedicated brass for each rifle and a log book with all the load development information and what load and bullet made the grade for each rifle.

if you are loading plinking ammo then size for the tightest chamber. i just don't do that.

Thank God for those ziploc baggies. I don't load general purpose and load for specific rifles. I also try to load more during the winter months unless I get on some quest kick. By summer's end I have piles of little baggies labeled with what I shot the stuff in and number of times loaded. Sometimes little 3X5 index cards with the load data I used, notes and print outs from the chronograph if I shot the stuff over the chrono. All of this seems to work much better since I retired. I keep telling my wife to buy more baggies.

Ron

 

[Richard Coody]

Thank God for those ziploc baggies. I don't load general purpose and load for specific rifles. I also try to load more during the winter months unless I get on some quest kick. By summer's end I have piles of little baggies labeled with what I shot the stuff in and number of times loaded. Sometimes little 3X5 index cards with the load data I used, notes and print outs from the chronograph if I shot the stuff over the chrono. All of this seems to work much better since I retired. I keep telling my wife to buy more baggies.

Ron

well i found myself with too many rifles. couldn't decide which one i wanted to shoot so i would take them all to the range. couldn't concentrate on any of them. thinned them out. now not my hunting rifles. just range toys. Doing.much better now. i load up a batch and go to the range and concentrate. only 100 rounds.of carefully prepared brass for each. my shooting has improved a lot.

 

[Sigfla]

Thanks for all the offers of help. I actually just got a new Harbor Freight table put together in my garage and I have slowly been moving my setup from the old house to the new. Once I get back up and running I may reach out to those who dropped me a PM.

 

[Bindi2]

SAAMI does make mistakes and is wrong and wont correct the mistake. The Brit 303 is the case , the round the barrel in fact SAAMI has it all wrong to the point they are dangerous. The Brit MoD Specs are the only correct ones to use.