Please ignore if you have found that Eric Stecker has posted similar information on this or another forum.
Eric, of Berger Bullets, was most gracious to send me a preview sample last week of some of his first lot of 6mm 105 VLD's out of his new dies, and asked me for my opinion, which I have forwarded to him in 2-3 piecemeal responses. Hopefully, I am not the first or only one to have received some of the initial lot and responded. My findings may not be typical, but they may bear on your situation.
I understand from at least one retailer that Berger 105's were inbound to them as of Wednesday this week.
INITIAL RESULTS with my 6BRX. Weather has been totally bad for over a week but I found 1 hour of calm winds Wednesday,70 degrees @ test time) and early today,33 degrees @ test time). Was limited to short tests of 3 shot groups at 100y and 100m. The best groups,from 7 different seating depths and powder charges both days) were 1/8" Wednesday and 3/16" today. All in all from both days, I have a total of 6 different seating/powder group results in the 1/4" and under category that I'll need to go back and explore later at 600 and 1000y since I do not compete at 100.
Here is the "Heads UP"......these new Berger 105's are NOT LIKE the old and will require serious competitive shooters to re-test their favorite Berger 105 VLD loads. When I emailed Eric earlier this week about the anomalies that I had found, he confirmed them and said that the new 105 would need to be tested by reloaders. He told me the diameters are smaller and that the ogives are different. True and True. Eric further related that it is virtually impossible for a bullet die maker to exactly duplicate an original die, ergo the differences between the old and the new. I'm not a bulletsmith or machinist or die maker, and don't know diddly about that part of the subject, but what I do know is that the differences are substantial and readily measurable.
The most notable difference,in my case} is that the "new" 105 must be seated about .012" further forward into the lands to achieve the same in/out of lands measurement as the "old" 105s.
My 6BRX barrels erode at about .001 per 200 rounds down the tube, so my initial thought is that it looks like I may be giving up a lot of neck gripping surface from the get-go.
Another difference, which Eric pointed out and I subsequently measured to my satisfaction, is that these new 105's have a smaller bearing surface diameter than the old. What I am measuring, with calipers, is just under .2425" on the new bearing surface,about the same as the Lapua 105 Scenars), and just a little under .243 at the bearing ring. At just a little over .2425 bearing surface, my old 105 Bergers measure .2430 at the pressure ring. With both my new Bartlein barrels measuring .237 across the lands, I am still mulling over this bullet diameter change.
What I did like was that new Berger seems to have solved the wide variance in bearing surface lengths,which I pointed out to Eric and Walt had grown to .024 within a box of 100 last May). I sampled 100 from just one box of this new lot, and using my comparator found that 99 bullets measured .632/.633 and only one measured .631. A welcome and dramatic improvement. And, the meplats on the new production examples I received were much better formed, not dog-earred like I had noted on some late Summer 2006 production. Meplat diameters are small, consistent in size and should require little if any trimming.
From a small sample I found the new 105's to weigh from 104.90 grains to 105.05, with majority at 105.00, but enough difference to merit sorting for my 1000y loads.
Frank
6mmbr.com week 62 lucky Gun
Eric, of Berger Bullets, was most gracious to send me a preview sample last week of some of his first lot of 6mm 105 VLD's out of his new dies, and asked me for my opinion, which I have forwarded to him in 2-3 piecemeal responses. Hopefully, I am not the first or only one to have received some of the initial lot and responded. My findings may not be typical, but they may bear on your situation.
I understand from at least one retailer that Berger 105's were inbound to them as of Wednesday this week.
INITIAL RESULTS with my 6BRX. Weather has been totally bad for over a week but I found 1 hour of calm winds Wednesday,70 degrees @ test time) and early today,33 degrees @ test time). Was limited to short tests of 3 shot groups at 100y and 100m. The best groups,from 7 different seating depths and powder charges both days) were 1/8" Wednesday and 3/16" today. All in all from both days, I have a total of 6 different seating/powder group results in the 1/4" and under category that I'll need to go back and explore later at 600 and 1000y since I do not compete at 100.
Here is the "Heads UP"......these new Berger 105's are NOT LIKE the old and will require serious competitive shooters to re-test their favorite Berger 105 VLD loads. When I emailed Eric earlier this week about the anomalies that I had found, he confirmed them and said that the new 105 would need to be tested by reloaders. He told me the diameters are smaller and that the ogives are different. True and True. Eric further related that it is virtually impossible for a bullet die maker to exactly duplicate an original die, ergo the differences between the old and the new. I'm not a bulletsmith or machinist or die maker, and don't know diddly about that part of the subject, but what I do know is that the differences are substantial and readily measurable.
The most notable difference,in my case} is that the "new" 105 must be seated about .012" further forward into the lands to achieve the same in/out of lands measurement as the "old" 105s.
My 6BRX barrels erode at about .001 per 200 rounds down the tube, so my initial thought is that it looks like I may be giving up a lot of neck gripping surface from the get-go.
Another difference, which Eric pointed out and I subsequently measured to my satisfaction, is that these new 105's have a smaller bearing surface diameter than the old. What I am measuring, with calipers, is just under .2425" on the new bearing surface,about the same as the Lapua 105 Scenars), and just a little under .243 at the bearing ring. At just a little over .2425 bearing surface, my old 105 Bergers measure .2430 at the pressure ring. With both my new Bartlein barrels measuring .237 across the lands, I am still mulling over this bullet diameter change.
What I did like was that new Berger seems to have solved the wide variance in bearing surface lengths,which I pointed out to Eric and Walt had grown to .024 within a box of 100 last May). I sampled 100 from just one box of this new lot, and using my comparator found that 99 bullets measured .632/.633 and only one measured .631. A welcome and dramatic improvement. And, the meplats on the new production examples I received were much better formed, not dog-earred like I had noted on some late Summer 2006 production. Meplat diameters are small, consistent in size and should require little if any trimming.
From a small sample I found the new 105's to weigh from 104.90 grains to 105.05, with majority at 105.00, but enough difference to merit sorting for my 1000y loads.
Frank
6mmbr.com week 62 lucky Gun
