Having issues with Redding dies Quality Control!

[TheCZKid]

My recent 3 purchases from Redding, last year and this year, have all had quality control issues...
Tonight I just got BACK the latest die I sent to Redding, because it was under-cut in dimensions, and my original die was returned with no change, with the same issue I sent it to them to get fixed... I'm frustrated.
Last year I got a CZ 17 Hornet, and purchased their 3 die set from MidSouth, with 2 bushings, cost over $360. The FL Sizing die was so under-sized I had to lube a case 5 times to get it to size one piece of brass, and my whole reloading room was shaking from the chittering of the die, it was so tight. Stuff was falling off shelves in my office! So I returned the whole batch of stuff to MidSouth, and was out return shipping plus a 10% restocking fee, so lost $60+.

This year I decided to purchase the competition seating die individually, and it had issues. The sleeve which encompasses the case would slide up into the die when seating, and get stuck in the "up" position. The caliber stamping on the sleeve bottom was raised enough to catch on the die body. I carefully sanded and polished it so it would function... but I shouldn't have to fix a brand new die that cost that much.

And I went ahead and purchased their Type S bushing die individually, again, thinking "they really screwed the last one up, I'm sure they don't have that same problem..." I was wrong. The new sizing die is also not right, it's under-cut so it sized the brass TOO MUCH, but not as bad as the last one. However it's sizing the brass way more than my Hornady FL Sizing die does, severely overworking the brass. I just wanted the bushing diameter control, as I turn my necks, and want to control neck tension. But it is making the brass way more sized than it needs to, it would completely over-work the brass if I used it regularly. My Hornet die sizes it perfectly, just enough to fit my chamber with 1.5 to 2 thousands clearance in diameter. The Redding die is sizing it 4 and 4.5 thousands in diameter size, and the brass grows a LOT as a result.

That's trouble with 3 of the last 3 dies I purchased from Redding. Before I send this die in their customer service guy said they are working overtime due to Covid, and so the quality control has not been as good as normal... I hope this is not normal!

Hornady dies are Kicking A$$ on Redding dies, not what I expected for the extra money $$$.

I'll call them again tomorrow, and see if they can actually fix the poor die cut. If not I'll just have to return this die to Precision Reloading, and the 2 bushings to Midway, and take my losses, again.

Curious about others experience with Redding Die issues??

 

[Straightshooter1]

Curious about others experience with Redding Die issues??

When I received my recent order of a Redding neck sizing die I immediately ran a few brass through it (without the spindle and expander ball) and found it produced a TIR from .005 - .009", which is certainly unacceptable. So I packed it up and sent it back for a refund. Apparently, Redding's QC isn't working very well.

 

[Hengehold]

Why don’t you ship the dies to Redding instead of return them for a refund? I’m sure Redding would be happy to fix their mistake for you and have a happy customer.

 

[KMart]

I have not been impressed by the internal finish of their dies.....rougher than a wood haulers azz.
Their micrometer seating dies could use some work also.
Sometimes you MUST buy their stuff because other companies don't make what you need.

 

[jrb06]

Did you check to see maybe your chamber is oversized and it is not the dies. The Hornady dies might be a tad larger and more forgiving.

 

[JFrank]

Send 3 3x fired cases to your favorite die manufacturer and you'll typically get a die that fits your chamber a bit better. Wilson does if free..

 

[KMart]

Why don’t you ship the dies to Redding instead of return them for a refund? I’m sure Redding would be happy to fix their mistake for you and have a happy customer.

I think he covered that in his first 3 lines.

My recent 3 purchases from Redding, last year and this year, have all had quality control issues...
Tonight I just got BACK the latest die I sent to Redding, because it was under-cut in dimensions, and my original die was returned with no change, with the same issue I sent it to them to get fixed... I'm frustrated.

 

[jepp2]

Curious about others experience with Redding Die issues??

I've got probably 45+ Redding dies (either body dies, die sets, Comp die sets, etc). Most of my stuff is older but I do have recent production.

I polish the interior of all my sizing dies with Flitz then Mothers to improve the surface finish. It reduces the sizing effort by at least 50% and takes very little time to do. But I'm not impressed with the interior finish on any manufacturers sizing dies I have used.

Only my 223AI die set had a slight issue with the interior dimensions, or my rifles are slightly shorter chambered (and they should be 0.004" short) so I just removed some material off the top of the shell holder and problem solved.

On my 6mm CM dies (and I have more than 1) they seriously undersize the case neck. But I hone my die necks to the diameter I want, so that addresses that.

Other than Redding, most of the rest of my dies are from back in the 60's to 80's. I went exclusively to Redding since they are much better quality than those dies.

Several years ago I started using the Redding S bushing dies. By controlling the sizing of the neck, I felt my brass would be better for accuracy. A while after that I started working on reducing case neck runout, then bullet runout. My experience was that using a Redding S die with a Redding bushing gave more neck runout than I wanted (0.003" to 0.006" TIR). I switched to Whidden bushing in the Redding dies and cut that number in half. But using honed FL sizing dies, my case neck runout is ALWAYS less than 0.001".

When I was working on bullet runout, I just assumed that Redding Comp bullet seating dies would give me the least runout on my bullets. Then 1 day I started checking them. Uh-oh. So now I seat my bullets in 3 steps, rotating the case about 120 degrees in each step. That reduced my bullet runout by over 2/3.

 

[TheCZKid]

Did you check to see maybe your chamber is oversized and it is not the dies. The Hornady dies might be a tad larger and more forgiving.

I actually got the SAAMI spec drawings for the 17 Hornet, both case and chamber drawings, and then compared my shot case dimensions to the chamber size, and my chamber seems to be really close to the SAAMI sizes. Then I checked the size my Hornady die was sizing compared to the shot and un-sized case, and it was sizing the diameter the web / base area .0015" from un-sized, and shoulder .0020" from un-sized case size. Then sizing the case the Redding die sized the web / base .0040" and shoulder .0045". The Hornady die sizes it about perfect to fit my chamber, and I bump the shoulder back .002" and it chambers great. With the Redding die it takes a lot more force to size the brass and it flops around in my Wilson case gauge. It sizes it too much from my perspective. In sizing brass, if I can size it less and nor wear out the brass, and it fits my chamber perfectly, then I don't NEED to size it more.
Just got off the phone with Redding, and they said the die is cut to size to SAAMI Minimum sizing dimensions, so it's sizing it the MOST it can. The note in the file is "Die gauged and pinned in spec, sized 4 of customer provided cases with no issues. Die does size cases smaller than other brand dies. Dimensions of die are within specifications"
But he said if I send the die in again, with attention to him, then he would try to get it polished out or resized a bit, so it only sizes my shot case about 1.5 to 2.0 thousands.
So, at least I'm not going to have to return this one.

 

[RegionRat]

Sorry to hear about your trouble. These days lots of things that used to be steady and dependable are not.
When you have lived long enough, you will see escapes from all the different brands.

That said, I have been happy with my Redding dies well enough. I had some examples of the incremental competition shell holders that were not to spec, but they sent me good ones right away.

Like some others here, I would hate to count them all up cause it means I am getting old....

The lesson is to try and be in a position to inspect and gage your tools and dies when it is important.

Outer diameters are much easier to measure than inner diameters, but that same Cerrosafe-casting technique used to check rifle chambers works on dies too and then you can measure outer diameters of the casting instead of needing an exotic CMM to gage the inside. If you try this, be sure not to get trapped when a diameter goes from small to large like going past the shoulder on a Type-S die. You must keep the cast stepping down and not back up or you will get it stuck.

Roughness issues are a visual game at home. Surface roughness profile machines are not cheap. Getting used to what is too rough and needs to go back takes a little experience that isn't easy to share on a screen without passing good and bad samples around in person.

 

[Straightshooter1]

Why don’t you ship the dies to Redding instead of return them for a refund? I’m sure Redding would be happy to fix their mistake for you and have a happy customer.

I did think about doing that. And I know . . . all manufacturers have issues to some extent, even those doing custom work. When I bought the die I felt I was taking a chance on whether or not I'd be getting a good one as I've read many issues people were having with Redding dies in more than one blog over the last couple years. At the time, I had also thought about a custom die and since this didn't work out, that's the direction I decided to go now.

 

[Catfur]

Just a note, and I'm not saying the quality of the product you are complaining about is acceptable, but the problem you describe sounds more like a rough interior finish (as others say) than an out-of-spec size. I've shoved all sorts of too-big stuff (yes, Virginia, you can fit an 8mm Mauser into a 6XC die) into too-small dies, and it might take a lot of force, it doesn't chitter, and once it's all the way up into the die, it comes out smoothly.

 

[jonbearman]

Years ago I bought Redding full length 6mmbr set. I cleaned the die with brake clean and sprayed some Hornady case lube so the steel wasn"t dry. Sized my 1st one and it destroyed the brass. In the end it was rough bored and left that way. I sent it back and they sent me a new die set no questions asked. Then I got a new 260 rem die the same way and they replaced it. The weird thing is lyman, rcbs, and hornady have always been great out of the box. I still buy Redding but it doesnt look good making newbie mistakes on stuff you have been making for decades.I sincerely hope they can fix their production problems.

 

[Kurz]

Redding Reloading Equipment does no direct retail sales.

Like so many in our industry we have been innundated with orders since last spring. We appreciate all of the interest in our quality American Made products and we are working hard to keep up with the demand. We have added people and new machinery with more on the way. We will not do anything which will impact our quality and so integration of the new equipment will take a bit of time. Our people are working overtime and we are doing all we can to maintain a reasonble time-to-ship for orders. We sincerely appreciate your patience during this difficult time.

The above is from the Redding website.

And two spelling errors in just this one short announcement. Sheesh! They must really be too busy.

Agree or disagree, supportive or critical, the bolded line above says a lot about service and quality including Quality Control. When your people are overwhelmed or exhausted by the volume and level of the work load, quality will suffer, plain and simple. Redding is not a miracle worker in this industry, they suffer just like all the other manufacturers have and do during this ridiculous era. Shortcuts are a standard, lowering acceptability standards is commonplace, finding the loopholes in warrantee or guarantee work is normal operating procedures just so they can get through the load of problems in manufacturing.

Extended use of tooling will also contribute to failing quality. It takes time to switch out used tools for new, sharpened tools and then set the manufacturing parameters. Chances are that they use re-sharpened tooling which can contribute to undersized dimensions, yes even with CNC offsets in place. New tooling can arrive with slightly different dimensions which might affect your sizing if even slightly. No reamer is ever exactly the same as the one previous to it.

I do not excuse Redding or any other manufacturer in similar situations, except to say that the last 18 months or so have truly been unique to our chosen pursuits. I use very few name brand reloading dies at all any more. Too many disappointments and rising prices make it less worthwhile. It's too easy to make a set and saves time and money over purchases made through the internet. It would be great if the LGS could afford to carry some of the oddball dies I need but I fear they would lose money which they can ill-afford these days.

Do what you can, make the manufacturers aware of your disappointment and post when you can without becoming whiney. Everyone makes mistakes, it's how they choose to correct these mistakes which separates them from all the rest.

 

[JFrank]

I did think about doing that. And I know . . . all manufacturers have issues to some extent, even those doing custom work. When I bought the die I felt I was taking a chance on whether or not I'd be getting a good one as I've read many issues people were having with Redding dies in more than one blog over the last couple years. At the time, I had also thought about a custom die and since this didn't work out, that's the direction I decided to go now.

I have Redding dies that are really good, but if you what to get a good fit send them with 3 fired cases back for honing.
OR... lewilson.com will do the same thing but on a small company, customer service mentality and you'll get a terrific die for a great price.

They actually answer the phone !

 

[TheCZKid]

Just a note, and I'm not saying the quality of the product you are complaining about is acceptable, but the problem you describe sounds more like a rough interior finish (as others say) than an out-of-spec size. I've shoved all sorts of too-big stuff (yes, Virginia, you can fit an 8mm Mauser into a 6XC die) into too-small dies, and it might take a lot of force, it doesn't chitter, and once it's all the way up into the die, it comes out smoothly.

In regards to the chittering I had when sizing, it was just a start / stop / start / stop as I bore down on the handle of the press, and when it came out it was REAL shiny! Like a brass mirror. The inside of the die looked smooth, it was just cut way too small in diameter compared to the brass I was sizing. The Hornady FL sizing die actually sizes very smoothly, with little force. The second Redding die wasn't chittering and was smooth, it took a fair amount more force to size, because it is sizing the whole body about .003 more than the Hornady die. It was overworking the body of the brass, it that's what was bugging me.

In talking to the Customer Service guy, who was very good to work with, he said Redding sizing dies are cut to size to the Maximum of SAAMI specs, so the +/- allowance, from the lease to the most, they decided to size the maximum that a piece of brass can be sized while staying in SAAMI specifications.

So, what I'm grateful for, is he said to send it in - to his attention, and he would get the inside dimensions to be more like the Hornady die. They certainly didn't have to offer to do that, as it measured to their specs, so I let him know in my note that I was grateful for going the extra mile. Now I just hope it's good when it is finished.

I have found Forster Dies to be of as good or better quality to Redding, better than the normal die brands, like RCBS, Hornady, and especially Lee. Redding tends to be slightly more expensive than Forster, and Forster dies are more expensive than the normal brands, but the Forster dies are excellent. Their Ultra Micrometer seating heads have a larger diameter dial head, so the thousands marks are about 1/8" apart, easy to see and dial. Redding dial is smaller in diameter, and the readings are about 1/16" apart, and I find them challenging to make fine adjustments. I've never had a problem with any of my Forster dies, and I have I think 7 calibers of 8 with their dies. They don't make a 17 Hornet set, or I'd have gotten it.

 

[TheCZKid]

Did you check to see maybe your chamber is oversized and it is not the dies. The Hornady dies might be a tad larger and more forgiving.

I actually checked SAAMI spec drawing, the chamber diameter at web would be .2992, then measured my shot case it was .2995, so fired case is .0003 larger than chamber, which is one third of one thousandth of an inch. SAAMI just below the shoulder is .2945, then measured my shot case, and it was .2950, so .0005 over, or one half of one thousandth of an inch. Pretty darn close to exact, less than one half of a thousandth.

The Hornady die was sizing only .0015" at the web, and .0020" at the shoulder.
Redding die sizing down .0040" at the web, and .0045" at the shoulder. Not a huge amount over, but the Hornady die was not sizing it any farther than it needed to fit my chamber really well. And it is causing less brass fatiguing by not sizing it down more than was necessary. So I would prefer to not over doing the sizing if I don't have to.

The reason I got the S die was to use bushings to control the neck tension, and Redding is the ONLY company who offers one in 17 Hornet. Maybe I'm a bit OCD, but seems to go well with accurate reloading methods.

 

[JFrank]

Use the Hornday

 

[Mulligan]

This tread cracks me up. Redding used to be on top of their game, now not so much. I have bought two sets of Redding dies in the last five years or so. When the first set did not set the shoulder back at all, I called customer service. That fella spoke down to me and treated me like a complete moron. Then said the dies are designed to have to cam-over to actually bump the shoulder back. I sent an email to them and got the exact same reply. They basically said I did not know how to adjust their die. The cam-over worked for one firing then it was not enough to get the bolt to close. This was on an 30-06. I took the die and my press to the gun smith and asked for some help. He set it up and gave it a go……30 minutes later I was heading home with the die working. Shorter by a bit, but working.
A couple of years later, I bought another set of their 7-08 dies, same issue, sent the back to the retailer and ordered Whidden dies. Worked like a charm.
I am sure there are a lot of good folks at Redding, from my experience, it appears QC and Customer Service are not where the best get promoted to.
CW

 

[JFrank]

@Mulligan
Yep' and the odd part is that the type S ( speedy) is suppose to have .015 off the bottom already....

What happened Redding?