Harrel's powder measure repeatability?

[OneEyedJack]

Currently, I throw powder with a Pact scale and dispenser, then do a final weight measurement and adjustment with a Denver scale.

The Pact dispenser is slow and makes handloading time much longer than it could be. I'm wondering whether I could use some type of Harrel's dispenser instead of the Pact, saving time.

I would like to know the repeatability of loads dispensed by a Harrel's measure. If there is quite a bit of variability, then I would lose time by having to adjust the load while on the Denver scale.

Has anyone thrown a number of loads from a Harrel's and measured it with a Denver scale to judge repeatability?

 

[BoydAllen]

The variance in charge weight thrown by any powder measure is primarily dependent on the size and shape of the grains of powder, and the the technique being used. I find my Harrell measure very convenient in that the detents are spaced at approximately tenth grain intervals and are very repeatable. Additionally, the built in clamp and provisions for threaded powder bottles, as well as compact size and smooth action, due to the use of roller bearings are all in the plus column. Any measure can do well with ball powder. As one climbs the scale of increasing coarseness, the variance of charge weights increases. Also, there is considerable difference in results obtained with different techniques. VV 133 and its brethren that share the same grain size are about the coarsest powders that I will throw. 322, benchmark, and 8208 are all easier to throw accurately.

 

[CoyoteVision]

To repeat BoydAllen - "The variance in charge weight thrown by any powder measure is primarily dependent on the size and shape of the grains of powder, and the technique being used."

I have found the technique being used to be of extreme importance, more than I would have thought. When I first got the Harrell's Premium throw, I began to convert grains to clicks. Throwing powder and putting it on the scale. Could not get a consistent weight using H322.,Variance was usually minus 0.2-0.3gr.) Then I noted that if I threw 10 charges in a row,instead of 1) they were real consistent. That's when I began using a consistent throwing technique and got consistent throws.
Not to bore you further, but here is what I do:
1) Throw 2 or 3 charges into my scale tray to get myself into same pattern/tempo/technique. Dump this back into the bottle.
2) Then get my tray of brass and begin. Raise the handle at consistent rate of speed until it taps the stop at the top. Back off slightly and tap once more.
3) Lower the handle slowly at a consistent rate of speed.
This gets me consistent throws on the scale every time.
If I change settings, I always throw Approx. 6 charges in a scale tray before beginning to load brass.

However- don't forget, different powders change consistency.

 

[Aussie_bob]

I also have a Harrells and find that the user is the main variable as to getting consistant loads.
When i first set up and put in the powder i will be using i give the bottle a few light taps to settle the powder secondly i then like the others throw 3 or 4 loads and tip them back in.
My thrower is set for one rifle at present so then i throw a load and weigh the method i use to to raise the lever slight pause at top and throw the charge if you do this at a nice steady even rate you will get beautifully consistent loads.
When loading for comp i will throw and weigh each load and some times add or subtract 4 or 5 kernels of powder these are about .5 of a 10thof a grain.
If i am loading for club comp will throw and weigh the first few loads and if consistent will throw 10 or even 20 take a couple out and weight and they have been less than a 10th out so then i will throw 50 if i am loading a lot of cases. There are other good powder throwers on the market.

 

[OneEyedJack]

A repeatability of 0.2-0.3 grains is too large, of course. I was hoping that most people would be getting 0.06 grain or smaller variations. I hadn't thought about the human factor, probably because I've only seen pictures of these powder measures and not had any hands-on experience.

I am using Varget, H4350, H4831SC, and RL15. The first three are not too dissimilar in size and shape, while the latter has smaller and much less uniform extrusions. A variance of 0.06 grains is the physical equivalent of three kernels of Varget, not too much to add or subtract to the pile on the Denver.

Is there a particular Harrel's model that would give me the best results for these powders?

 

[ReedG]

I've thrown powder with various models of Lee, Lyman, RCBS, Redding and Harrell's powder measures and weighed them on Redding No. 1,oil baffled), Ohaus, Lyman, RCBS 505 & 1010, Lee balance scales and Lyman and Hornady electronic scales. The Harrell's measure, when used by an experienced and consistent hand, is the best there is.

If you have a load that is so fussy that .06 of a grain matters you are in a league of your own. In my cases,30BR, 6BR, 223, 223AI) all of which use Varget except the 30BR, three kernels of powder is so insignificant it has no value. I cannot prove any difference at the target with +/- 0.2 grain.

Of all the variables we must deal with in neck tension, proper annealing, case capacity, clean or fouled barrel, bench manners, bag tension, etc., etc., etc., three kernels of powder is immeasurable.

Get yourself a Harrell's, throw a few hundred practice charges to get a good rhythm and consistency, and you will find it is a great piece of equipment.