Harrells Tuner Brake - Where to start?

[ridgeway]

I chambered up a new 8 twist Brux in 6 Dasher and set it up with a radial brake and a tuner so I can swap if the tuner drives me crazy, lol.

Anyhow, I shot a few loads out of it with the brake and looks extremely promising right off the bat.

Now, where do I start? The thread travel is .570" up and down the scale. Should I screw the weight all the way to one end or in the middle?

Wouldn't it work anywhere along the threads as long as a full revolution is possible?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I STRONGLY recommend you tune at the distance you will compete at for best results. With the tuners I played with I started at the bottomed out position, worked up a good load then turned the tuner out. It did seem to come in and of tune so you could probably start any where. I liked to star from the bottom so you dont get lost in the rotations.

 

[fdshuster]

Chuck: I just put the exact same tuner/brake into use on my Krieger barreled 308.

First fired a couple groups without the tuner, just the brake alone & all was fine. Then installed the tuner & lock ring, started at the most forward position, 150, not good, back to 100 a little better, back to 50, not much change then forward to 75, and hit the jackpot, (for that load). Then ran the identical load except with IMR 4064 instead of the previous Varget and that "best" number is 65. Chonographed velocities of both loads are the same, 4064 has lower SD & ES numbers.

Been using a rubber strap wrench to remove & install, also to tighten the lock ring, & it works fine.

 

[BoydAllen]

One thing that I have seen reported, and experiences my self is that when adjusting a tuner, the distance between nodes can be very short, such that for a 28 pitch thread on a Beggs tuner (heavier weight but farther back than yours). a full turn of the tuner will take you from node to node, and small adjustments of tune may be on the order of a sixteenth of a turn. Once you have found a sweet spot, it might be interesting to find out how far in or out the next one is. If you start all the way to one side of the adjustments and test wit two shot groups, using the best load that you could find with the brake alone, then you will only have one direction to go. Let us know how it goes.

 

[ridgeway]

Thanks guys...I'll report back when I get a chance to do some testing. Might be a few weeks...

 

[6BRinNZ]

One thing that I have seen reported, and experiences my self is that when adjusting a tuner, the distance between nodes can be very short, such that for a 28 pitch thread on a Beggs tuner (heavier weight but farther back than yours). a full turn of the tuner will take you from node to node, and small adjustments of tune may be on the order of a sixteenth of a turn. Once you have found a sweet spot, it might be interesting to find out how far in or out the next one is. If you start all the way to one side of the adjustments and test wit two shot groups, using the best load that you could find with the brake alone, then you will only have one direction to go. Let us know how it goes.

For my .308 I initially developed a load with the EC tuner on 0. Once the powder charge etc was settled on a adjusted the tuner, by the time I had reached 8 it was dialed in. I didn't take it past this number as I wanted to get to a match. Later on I reworked the load as the FPS for the original load was a little too borderline for 1000.

I reset the tuner to 0 did the load development and then started dialing in with the tuner again, expecting that somewhere around 8 I would see similar results...nup...I was actually feeling a little panicked - results were good but nowhere good enough and I was out to 12. Spoke to a short range benchrester who uses them and he said to make a large change so I went to 15 - no good, then 20 and wahoo almost 1 hole, I took it out to 25 and still had 3 shots touching, took it back to 20 and again a very small hole.

It was explained to me that some nodes are long and rolling others are short and peaky. It looks like my first load was relatively peaky compared to my second load which took far greater change to find but seemed to be relatively wide once I found it.

I want to do more work on this but bullets are too scarce at the moment.

I don't think I will build another rifle without a tuner - life seems so much easier

 

[fdshuster]

The newest edition of "Varmint Hunter" magazine (Summer 2014) has an article on tuner/brakes, "Tuning with Confidence", page 179. A Savage chambered in 6mm.

 

[ridgeway]

The newest edition of "Varmint Hunter" magazine (Summer 2014) has an article on tuner/brakes, "Tuning with Confidence", page 179. A Savage chambered in 6mm.

You need to make a PDF and share it, lol.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

The article seems to be more about "confidence intervals" than tuning, tuners, or accuracy. I am not really sure what the point of it was??

 

[Judd]

I did all powder and seating tuning with the tuner set at 0. Once I found the best of everything I then shot the tuner at 10 intervals out to 150...two shots apiece. Then I found the two best and shot 2 at every 3rd setting and then worked with the to best and attempted to fine tune.

Worked great in my 6.5x47 and not worth a crap in my 6brx. So much so I couldn't get the 6brx to shoot and smith is pulling the tuner and going to a straight brake. I might go back to the tuner (not convinced that was the problem but wanted to eliminate variables) after I work on tuning it without the tuner. In my past experience I'm not sure a tuner is necessary when you hit on the improved 6's.

 

[johara1]

I did all powder and seating tuning with the tuner set at 0. Once I found the best of everything I then shot the tuner at 10 intervals out to 150...two shots apiece. Then I found the two best and shot 2 at every 3rd setting and then worked with the to best and attempted to fine tune.

Worked great in my 6.5x47 and not worth a crap in my 6brx. So much so I couldn't get the 6brx to shoot and smith is pulling the tuner and going to a straight brake. I might go back to the tuner (not convinced that was the problem but wanted to eliminate variables) after I work on tuning it without the tuner. In my past experience I'm not sure a tuner is necessary when you hit on the improved 6's.
[/quote

I ask some makers of tuners if they would help if your 6mm Dasher is shooting in the low .1's and zero's and the ES is in the single digits they told me… no, it probably wouldn't……. jim

 

[ChrisNZ]

I ask some makers of tuners if they would help if your 6mm Dasher is shooting in the low .1's and zero's and the ES is in the single digits they told me… no, it probably wouldn't……. jim

Makes sense, because at that point, the limitation would probably be projectile variations rather than barrel harmonics.

 

[6BRinNZ]

I did all powder and seating tuning with the tuner set at 0. Once I found the best of everything I then shot the tuner at 10 intervals out to 150...two shots apiece. Then I found the two best and shot 2 at every 3rd setting and then worked with the to best and attempted to fine tune.

Worked great in my 6.5x47 and not worth a crap in my 6brx. So much so I couldn't get the 6brx to shoot and smith is pulling the tuner and going to a straight brake. I might go back to the tuner (not convinced that was the problem but wanted to eliminate variables) after I work on tuning it without the tuner. In my past experience I'm not sure a tuner is necessary when you hit on the improved 6's.

I ask some makers of tuners if they would help if your 6mm Dasher is shooting in the low .1's and zero's and the ES is in the single digits they told me… no, it probably wouldn't……. jim

Have you considered the Varmint Al page where he suggests that a tuner might be used to introduce vertical at 100 so that at the desired range of say 600 or 1000 there is none. The vertical would be equivalent to the ES and needs lowest shot to hit highest at 100. The article implied that if a tuner was used to create a group in the 0's at 100 then it would have vertical equivalent to the ES at distance.

Makes me wonder if the long range boys (myself) - BR and F-class are using tuners the correct way.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I've not shot a match without a tuner since 2007 or 2008. They are, IME, great at what they do. They will not fix gun problems or shooter error. Nor will they make a perfectly tuned rifle, more perfectly tuned, as that's not possible.


What they will do, is give a wider tune window and keep a rifle perfectly tuned through a wide range of temperatures and allow your "hot" weather load to shoot in cold weather. IME, in every single instance, a known good load in a particular rifle has a tuner setting that it will shoot at it's best at. So, instead of changing powder charge or seating depth to keep up with tune, you simply nudge the tuner and accomplish the same thing. The better the barrel is dampened, to more forgiving to load variables it will be, as well.


The most common mistake in using a tuner is making too big of adjustments. Very small adjustments are all it takes. Often there are multiple good tunes in a single revolution of the tuner. So, being methodical in finding your tuner adjustment window is critical. I can assure you frustration if you just start cranking randomly.


The window will vary with tuner design, barrel length, contour, etc, but once a good tune is found, keeping it tuned has, IME, always been done in a range of less than 1/4 turn...at the most.

With my tuner, it is more in the neighborhood of 1/8th of a turn. Tuners really are very simple to use....just be methodical in finding your tune window and stay in that range, throughout all reasonable temp changes and load changes.

An example:
Let's say you get one of my tuners installed on your proven gun, using proven loads...
Start shooting 2-3 shot groups at EACH MARK on the tuner, for at least a full revolution. Then examine the target to determine your best setting. On both sides of your best setting, you'll see the groups open up. Determine the width of this range of adjustment to establish what completely in and out of tune "look like". Then go back to it and fine tune from there, moving fractions of a single graduation, staying within that range of adjustment.

When first working up loads, finding your range is less simple, but still very easy. I work up loads with the tuner installed, but it can be done with it off, also. I just leave the tuner set at zero...or wherever..and go about my load development as I would without a tuner. Once I've settled on a load, keeping that load shooting is as simple as barely turning the tuner...most often less than 1 mark on the tuner! Each mark on my tuner is equivalent to .002" fore and aft movement.....Amazing isn't it?

FWIW, I seldom have to move the tuner at all. The tune window(conditions) is usually wide enough that where ever it was last shot is likely in tune or very close. Most commonly, if I move it, it's on the first target or warmup, and it never needs touching again on that day. With a small window for range of adjustment, you'll never be far off from your ideal tuner setting. This is important to note in matches where sighters or warmups aren't allowed, but it's never a bad idea to check your tune on paper when allowed.


I hope this helps!---Mike Ezell

 

[skeetlee]

mike knows his stuff folks. Listen closely. Lee

 

[Link]

I
Wouldn't it work anywhere along the threads as long as a full revolution is possible?

I see this is a OLD post.. However I think I will wake it up from it's sleep. I was told that when adjusting a Harrell's tuner / brake I should adjust in 1 full turn increments to start. That's not what I have been reading here. Thoughts? 6BRA 8T

ty Don

 

[JEFFPPC]

I see this is a OLD post.. However I think I will wake it up from it's sleep. I was told that when adjusting a Harrell's tuner / brake I should adjust in 1 full turn increments to start. That's not what I have been reading here. Thoughts? 6BRA 8T

ty Don

I shoot Bob Greens on three rifles. I agree with Mr.Ezel in making small adjustments. I come three turns out with mine, set it, develope a load, looking for consistant 3 shot groups in the ones and twos. Then I go to 200 yds, and make very small movements both lt and rtl. Usually right away one direction will make it worse, the other will tighten it up or round it up. That's it, unless It's for 1000 then I redo the tuner at 1000. If I ever think guns not doing it's part, I revisit the tuner. All shooting done with flags to shoot on the same condition or your wasting your time. If you want the tuner to make your load, find a new hobby that requires less work.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I see this is a OLD post.. However I think I will wake it up from it's sleep. I was told that when adjusting a Harrell's tuner / brake I should adjust in 1 full turn increments to start. That's not what I have been reading here. Thoughts? 6BRA 8T

ty Don

The heavier the moving weight the less you need to move it. The harrels weights are extremely light so it takes more.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I decided to wake mine up a bit and make it effective

 

[Texas10]

I have the Harrells tuner/brake on my 6BR. I developed the initial load sans tuner, but with thread protector in place on my Shilen 8 twist, 26 in barrel. Once I had the 107 SMKS shooting well, I put the tuner on and started with small adjustments. Tuner was set at 0 to start, just up from bottom (all the way in). I found the first good tune at 2.0 at 70 F and go in to 1.2 at 90 F. Yesterday I shot a 5 shot group measuring .21 MOA at 200 yds, no flags, shoddy bench, and the tuner had come loose! I discovered it was loose after 3 wild shots. Stopped and tightened it, screwed it in all the way then back out to 1.2 and put 5 into a hole that would make me happy at 100 yds.

I am finding that the tuner wants to be within a fairly narrow range of temperature. Not a cold barrel, not hot. Just nicely warm is where it shoots best.