Hard click at top of bolt lift

[sdneil]

I am shooting a 6brx...no hot loads...bolt not hard to lift but at top of lift has hard click...brass loaded 4 times now and annealed once after 2nd loading.. have a SB .308 die ...hate to resize the brass to far....???? thanks Neil

 

[shoot4fun]

Are you measuring shoulder bump? How much are you bumping?
Measure case head too. I have one Dasher barrel that was letting case head expansion go .0015 over my other barrels and it clicked. The SB 308 die fixes that problem!

 

[tclaunch]

I am shooting a 6brx...no hot loads...bolt not hard to lift but at top of lift has hard click...brass loaded 4 times now and annealed once after 2nd loading.. have a SB .308 die ...hate to resize the brass to far....???? thanks Neil

Lots and lots of older Kiff BRX reamers were .470" at the .200" line on the reamer print. This may be the culprit. The SB die is the only option unless you have the smith open the back end of the chamber up some.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Measure the base of the case above the extractor groove before and after you size, note the difference. I am betting no difference. Whidden may make a die smaller at the base. You need to use a BRX die, not a br die.

 

[gme]

you can try grinding a little material off the top of a shellholder (.020-.030) then run the brass up into a .308 full length die to size the web area a bit, resizing will take two steps but wont work the brass as hard as a small base die, it's what I do on my BRX's

 

[mikecr]

Is the bolt timed right?

 

[MDSpencer]

I'll fix it for $60.. Call me an I'll expane. (989) 385-0173

 

[fguffey]

you can try grinding a little material off the top of a shell holder (.020-.030) then run the brass up into a .308 full length die to size the web area a bit, resizing will take two steps but wont work the brass as hard as a small base die, it's what I do on my BRX's

.020" to .030": Lowering the deck height of the shell holder will increase the dies ability to reduce the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head. Most reloaders refer to shortening the length of the case as bumping the shoulder back, I don't because my shoulders do not move unless I collapse the case. I have collapsed cases to the point the case took on the appearance of an accordion or bellows; but that was for a different reason. I managed to bump the shoulder back and in the process I wrecked the case.


I would suggest the reloader purchases a feeler gage set, and then I would suggest the reloader grim the gage to fit between the deck of the shell holder and the case head. I would suggest the reloader start with a .005" leaf. If raising the case head off the deck of the shell holder .005" allows the case to chamber he has nothing to gain by going .020" to 30".


And then there is the 'I do not want to full length size my cases'. You are on your own. I adjust my die to off, below on the shell holder; after sizing the case and before I lower the ram I check the gap between the top of the shell holder and bottom of the die. I want to know the ability of the case to resist sizing. I use the gap to determine if it is necessary to lower the die to increase the presses ability to over come the cases ability to resist sizing.


F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

And then there is the cam action of the bolt; most of my rifle bolts cam back and the case comes with it. Then there are the times the bolt is difficult to raise. There have been times I raised the bolt handle and the case did not stay with the face of the bolt. On those cases I knew the extractor cut into and or gouged the rim of the case. On other occasions I have removed chunks of the rim as the extractor stayed with the bolt and the chamber kept the case.


A click; is it possible the click sound is caused by the chamber releasing the case? Is the click sound caused by the case head hitting the bolt face?

And then there is sizing the case head; my shell holders have a deck height of .125”. If my case heads are expanding and I know the diameter of the case head before I start I get concerned.


F. Guffey

 

[gme]

.020" to .030": Lowering the deck height of the shell holder will increase the dies ability to reduce the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head. Most reloaders refer to shortening the length of the case as bumping the shoulder back, I don't because my shoulders do not move unless I collapse the case. I have collapsed cases to the point the case took on the appearance of an accordion or bellows; but that was for a different reason. I managed to bump the shoulder back and in the process I wrecked the case.


I would suggest the reloader purchases a feeler gage set, and then I would suggest the reloader grim the gage to fit between the deck of the shell holder and the case head. I would suggest the reloader start with a .005" leaf. If raising the case head off the deck of the shell holder .005" allows the case to chamber he has nothing to gain by going .020" to 30".


And then there is the 'I do not want to full length size my cases'. You are on your own. I adjust my die to off, below on the shell holder; after sizing the case and before I lower the ram I check the gap between the top of the shell holder and bottom of the die. I want to know the ability of the case to resist sizing. I use the gap to determine if it is necessary to lower the die to increase the presses ability to over come the cases ability to resist sizing.


F. Guffey

The "bolt click" is caused by a chamber that's too small at the web area which leaves almost nothing to resize on the fired case, the problem gets worse as the brass work hardens, reducing the height of the shellholder allows the case to be pushed a bit further into a 308 full length die to allow a bit more sizing at the base of the case without having to resort to a small base die, it has no effect on shoulder bump in the BR or BRX die (unless you crank your die in too far), just requires a secondary sizing operation

 

[mikecr]

Nothing is caused by a chamber that's 'too small'. It's the chamber(your best die) that creates your final cartridge.
I've run a fitted 6.5wssm at SAAMI max (according to QL) for over 30 reload cycles with zero body, base, or neck sizing. The brass chambers and extracts just as it did freshly fire formed(easy), and seating force remains unchanged.
I did this by setting the web clearance, and all other clearances at 1thou over new Win reloading brass. With this, brass expanding parallel to chamber simply springs back, and no sizing is ever needed there. I also made sure I had enough barrel steel around that magnum chamber diameter(magnum tenon). This is not big clearances and small base dies, or honing out the breech, or any other band aids.
It's up front understanding and planning.

 

[jds holler]

Nothing is caused by a chamber that's 'too small'. It's the chamber(your best die) that creates your final cartridge.
I've run a fitted 6.5wssm at SAAMI max (according to QL) for over 30 reload cycles with zero body, base, or neck sizing. The brass chambers and extracts just as it did freshly fire formed(easy), and seating force remains unchanged.
I did this by setting the web clearance, and all other clearances at 1thou over new Win reloading brass. With this, brass expanding parallel to chamber simply springs back, and no sizing is ever needed there. I also made sure I had enough barrel steel around that magnum chamber diameter(magnum tenon). This is not big clearances and small base dies, or honing out the breech, or any other band aids.
It's up front understanding and planning.

 

[jds holler]

Small base 308 die fixed the same problem in my 22 BR. Simple investigation showed that I needed no more shoulder bump, but smaller case body dia. than my sizing die provided. One pass through the small base die cured the problem, which hasn't recurred with further loadings. If it does recur, I'll pass them through again. jd

 

[gme]

Nothing is caused by a chamber that's 'too small'. It's the chamber(your best die) that creates your final cartridge.
I've run a fitted 6.5wssm at SAAMI max (according to QL) for over 30 reload cycles with zero body, base, or neck sizing. The brass chambers and extracts just as it did freshly fire formed(easy), and seating force remains unchanged.
I did this by setting the web clearance, and all other clearances at 1thou over new Win reloading brass. With this, brass expanding parallel to chamber simply springs back, and no sizing is ever needed there. I also made sure I had enough barrel steel around that magnum chamber diameter(magnum tenon). This is not big clearances and small base dies, or honing out the breech, or any other band aids.
It's up front understanding and planning.

I think you know what I meant, the OP was looking for a fix to a problem that many of us who own BRX's have dealt with, your 1 thou clearance is why it works, when the chamber is "too small" meaning zero clearance at the web you get bolt click and need a means of reducing the brass to get the clearance you need, or increase the chamber to get the clearance

 

[fguffey]

The "bolt click" is caused by a chamber that's too small at the web area which leaves almost nothing to resize on the fired case, the problem gets worse as the brass work hardens, reducing the height of the shellholder allows the case to be pushed a bit further into a 308 full length die to allow a bit more sizing at the base of the case without having to resort to a small base die, it has no effect on shoulder bump in the BR or BRX die (unless you crank your die in too far), just requires a secondary sizing operation

That makes absolutely no sence to me; the scary part about that is there are reloaders that will agree with you and pretend they are listening.

I form cases for short chambers that are shorter in length than a minimum length case when measured from the shoulder of the case to the case head. I accomplish that without grinding the top of the shell holder and bottom of the die. I can not believe a reloader would do something as irresponsible as grinding the top of a shell holder without knowing why and or how much.

F. Guffey

 

[mikecr]

qme, it sounds like you're implying that new brass wouldn't fit and extract from a chamber -meaning the chamber is actually too small.
I don't know how often folks run into that. I never have.
Other than that the only things leading to interference fit is excess clearance to begin with(excess case yielding), annealing too low on the body(affecting normal springback), or chambers expanding too much(overtaking normal springback).
I guess once you're there it makes sense to overcome simple as you could. But consider that we don't have to get there. That it isn't something to accept as inevitable, at least with a new build.

I run a 'MyMax' pressure test to determine the point of FL sizing requirement, which I consider a run away condition with an improved case design. This involves charge increases while monitoring the web line for normal plateau, then a step change additional .0005". With my 6.5wssm this point put my MV at ~3230fps w/140gr bullets. Pressure is way up there at that point. So knowing this, and desiring for this brass to last forever, my load development was limited below it. I found an accuracy node at 3025fps using 139laps. My case matches in H20 capacity with the 260AI, so the result is expected and good.

This has been a standard in my plan for other cartridges including 6br, 6XC, and 223. In each I would have needed to pass SAAMI max by a good bit to cause a FL sizing requirement. Add to this one of the 3 conditions mentioned to cause popping extractions.
I don't FL size, ever, and have yet to give up anything substantial in load performance and nothing to brass life. I know many people will have to FL size, because their cartridge design or under bore advantage demands it.
But these are choices.

I want folks to know that everybody does not have to use small base dies,, because their chambers are 'too small'.. That just isn't true.
I haven't built a 6brx, or 6Dasher. But if I did, I would not be accepting of special processes for extraction issues, and I'm confident there is nothing wrong with these cartridges as designed, especially given Lapua brass, and custom chambers & aftermarket barrels. With my approach I would just never cause the issue to begin.

 

[Ont0001]

In addition to some of the items discussed...
Not sure this is the cause of your primary extractor "click" but I've found over some years that
another reason for this is TB. (Tired Brass) Although necks can be annealed back to spec...bodies
after being full sized numerous times ,can get work hardened too. The "spring back" that occurs
after firing in the chamber to release it's "grip" lessens as the case walls fatigue,thus taking more force with the primary extraction hit to break it loose.
Even using a smaller base die ...next firing ...same issue. Tired brass...
I find this occurs on some of my various cases after 4 or 5 firings , others at 10...but there is no way that I know of to avoid TB entirely.

 

[BoydAllen]

When we are faced with a question about an already existing chamber, it seems that all this talk about planning has little potential to help the problem that started the thread. In the 6PPC world, there is a lot of experience with the whole click issue, and yes, planning can prevent it, but that still leaves one with the question of how to best deal with an existing chamber, without re-chambering. The simple truth is that when shooters use hot loads, the solid head can expand and if the back of the chamber is too small relative to the brass, a click will be the result. Making the back of the chamber a little larger ( by "polishing it out") can solve the problem, which is exactly what a properly dimensioned reamer would have accomplished in the first place. There is nothing inferior or sinister about using a simple solution to solve a problem, as long as it does not impair safety or accuracy. On the other hand, we DO have too little information to make a precise recommendation. As far as the requirement for FL sizing, if someone tells me that he never has to to keep cases from becoming tight after repeated firing, I know for sure that he is not shooting loads that are as hot as many of us do. We may not have click issues, but we do have cases get tight.

 

[Tim Singleton]

Keep after it and find a solution that works. Probably a small base or ring die.
Having a bolt stuck in the middle of a match isn't a pleasant thing. Trust me

 

[savagedasher]

Find the cause then fix the problem. If you can't find it get help from someone who can.
Alex has several video on bolt timing. Primary extraction can be check with a feeler gauge.
Case head can be Checked with a mike or a permanent marker. Larry