hard bolt lift

[Link]

I did a search and didn't come up with a quick answer to my question.
I am resizing using a .008 comp shell holder. The round chambers good however I have a little harder bolt lift than I like. Can I just go to a smaller number shell holder, or will I have to reduce my powder load ? Or is it one of those every gun is different and have to try it things ? 30br 34.4 gr h 4198 br4 square mark of jam. 115 berger

thanks Link

 

[SET]

30br 34.4 gr h 4198 br4 square mark of jam. 115 berger

That load is not terribly hot by any means. Are you sure you're bumping the shoulder back .002 after re-sizing?

 

[searcher]

If it easily chambers as you state, it could be worn out brass (do you have the tell-tale 'click' when lifting the bolt?) or a warm load I think. A tighter-than-norm barrel might act this way, and you would likey have seen signs with any other "known" loads looking warm as well. If only with this load?

 

[artbosco]

I use a traditional shell holder and adjust the die until I'm pushing the shoulder back .001" to .0015". I measure with this Digital Headspace Gauge: http://www.larrywillis.com/ [Second item down]. I shoot 34.2 all the time and have never had a hard bolt lift.

Has the brass always been yours? Fireformed in your chamber?

 

[lrgoodger]

I've gone up to 125 grain bullets in my 30BR and stuffed 4198 in until it was compressed and never had a hard bolt lift. I don't think it is an overcharge situation by any means, unless perhaps you have a very fast twist for a 30BR.

 

[Link]

No bolt click, just lifts a little hard. The brass is new low count. FF in my gun. I wonder if I can just go from the 008 to the 006 shell holder to give .002 more bump and get away from the hard bolt lift ?

thanks

 

[Dgd6mm]

Link, what action are you shooting? How far are you already bumping the shoulder? You do not want to over bump the shoulder, if you do over bump you will increase brass stretching and increase your chance of head case separation.

 

[halfmoanut]

Do not bump shoulder more!!! 001 is plenty. Sometimes when base is not bumped enough this will happen. Remove firing pin assy from bolt push brass into chamber and try closing bolt, bolt should fall very easy for all but 1 inch from close. Slight press should close bolt all the way down. This is how you set up F.L. Die. Keep lowering die until this procedure is complete. Too much lube or not enough lube will dictate the variance in each case also.

 

['Freak]

Do you know that with the -.008” comp. shell holder the die is actually contacting and moving the shoulder back at least .001” according to some sort of gauge capable of measuring down to a one thousandth?

You don’t know that the -.008” shell holder allows the die to even contact the shoulder unless you measure a number of cases fire formed in that chamber, compare the numbers for before to after the assumed “bump”, and the math confirms that there was contact and the die is moving the shoulder back at least .001”.

That -.008” holder may not allow the die to even touch the shoulder. With no shoulder contact the die has room to squish it forward and could be doing so just enough for you to feel nothing on closing the bolt, but if you were borderline already out of room then the further expansion from firing the thing finishes it off. If so now, being as you done run slap out of room, this may be felt through the harder lifting of the bolt handle.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Measuring tools are very helpful when setting dies up properly. I know that you can set them up this way, that way, even the way the manufacturer tells you too, but I like using the tools.

 

[halfmoanut]

Most tools are pretty generic, unless made with the reamer that chambers the barrel. I believe your chambered rifle would be more precise.I have a stub for checking shoulder bump that was received with a F.L. Die that I purchased, when getting the correct shoulder bump by removing the firing pin and shroud assy from the bolt and setting up the correct feel one rifle of mine shows that the shoulder is being bumped .006 according to the stub measured with a dial caliper.JMO!

 

['Freak]

The tools are cheap enough, the Hornady/Stoney Point stuff or Sinclair’s with the shoulder angle cut into the insert will work in the same body and any half decent caliper will do for checking length head to shoulder.

 

[Brians356]

Most tools are pretty generic, unless made with the reamer that chambers the barrel.

The Hornady/Stoney Point system is "generic", yes, but works great for detecting relative movement of the shoulder before and after sizing.

If the sized cases chamber easily before firing, there's not much more to consider on the sizing side. The charge must be stiffer than you think, or the action/bolt is compressing enough during the pressure spike to allow the shoulder to creep forward a couple of thousandths farther than seems possible. I'd have a hard time somehow blaming this on the brass itself, but I'm open to alternate suggestions.

 

[dkhunt14]

I don't agree that if the bolt closes easily the size is is right. Bolt click usually comes from the back end of the case not being sized enough. It happens a lot especially when guys tighten up the back end of a reamer. A lot of times a custom or different die will take care of this. The die has to be able to size right for the chamber. Matt

 

[Link]

I have read all these reply's several times and tried some different primers and went down .2 gr powder. I still have the stiff bolt lift. I will be doing some more measuring tomorrow if time allows. [ or wifey ]
Rem x r 100 action.

Later Link

 

[Erik Cortina]

Take firing pin assembly out of the bolt and chamber a F/L sized case. If you encounter any resistance when closing bolt, bump shoulder back .001" and try again. Do this until bolt just closes on a F/L sized case.

 

[Link]

I did some measuring today, I have been bumping the shoulder .005 with the #8 Sinclair shell holder. I know this is to much. That wouldn't cause stiff bolt lift ?
I did the trick I read about using a locked caliper as a go - no go gage at the web and both sized and fired cases seem the same. At this point I have run out of ideas. I guess I will just have to start backing off on the powder charge [34.2 of h4198 however cci 400s look fine], or the amount of jam. I hate to being the gun is shooting .1s and .2s if I can do my part.

Is there something I have missed ?

thanks again.

 

[Joe Salt]

Link yes there is something you missed, How much clearance have you got on the necks? I found on my brass by accident with 3 thou. clearance that I had a much easier bolt lift.

Joe Salt

 

[SFGUY]

Well Savages are notorious for hard bolt lifting. If this were pressure you'd see other signs such as your primers being flattened, marks from the ejector/ extractor, and maybe even some blown primers.

I think you should first try a FL sizing die and the ordinary shell holder and see if the sized brass will chamber.
The precision shell holders are terrific when needed. they are not always necessary, nor does indiscriminately using one make a positive outcome..

You didn't mention your seating depth. You should get a Stoney Point tool and know this measurement. If your bullets are in the lands you will spike pressures.

Neck diameter on a loaded round vs what your chamber neck might be is also important.

Hope this helps

 

[Erik Cortina]

Well Savages are notorious for hard bolt lifting.

It's not a Salvage, it's a Rem x r 100 action.