Hard Bolt Close Rem 700 17 Fireball

[Cdv717]

Thanks boltfluter i will definitly try that tonight and see what happens, seems like that should help guide me in the right direction. Didnt feel it was a small base die needed because i didnt see any rubbing on the sharpie marker around the case head area but will definitly give it a try. My load 18.4 h322 with a 25vmax at .005 off the lands. The barrel is the factory sps varmint

 

[wvlongshot]

Try boltfluters method. Sounds like small base needed. Case isn't spinning in chamber, sharpie won't smear.

 

[Cdv717]

If i do need a small base die what would i use? When i search for 17 fireball, i only find a 223 small base die. I Dont see any for either fireball cartridge i have

 

[6MMsteve]

if the headspace is long it will cause issues, that are hard to find unless you barrel the gun yourself, I headspaced a Sav to long once and had a rough time figuring that one out, I always headspce tight on the go gauge or case if I'm going that route, chambering and extraction issues sometimes are caused by bad headspce, imho...since I have been headpacing tight on the go I have had no issues with dies extraction & chambering, but I'm sure I stuck my foot up me rear lol as always

 

[hogpatrol]

Playing the devil here. Remington? 17 Fireball factory barrel? Bought two, an M7 CDL and an all SS Sendero so BTDT, freebore you could hear an echo. Pull that tomato stake off and put a 1-9 Shilen or Lilja on it. You're going to fight that thing until you do.

Edit: Or a Pac-Nor three groove. The original M7 chamber was .010 out of concentric with the tenon. Try setting that back.

 

[Sleepinggiantbrass]

I load 17 and 221 fireball on a co-ax. This issue can arise sometimes on a co-ax if you have a tight chamber. The reason being is the co-ax jaws are quite thick therefore not letting the sizing go down far enough on the body near the base of the case. You have a couple options to test this, use a lee shell holder on your co-ax, they’re cheap enough, measure the thickness of the shell holder 1st, then resize a case and try to chamber. If it don’t chamber file or what I’ve done in the past is sand down the top of the Lee shell holder in a figure 8 motion a bit and size again while continuing to measure the thickness of the shell holder to know how much you’ve removed. If/when this works you could then do the same to the bottom of your sizing die.

 

[swd]

Like Paul said the web/.200 is probably too big. This is probably the most common reason fired cases chamber hard along with bolt click when opening.

A small base 223 die would probably work to size the .200" line/web area down as a separate step.

The list of possibility's..

OAL too long, need to trim

Shoulder diameter too big, not sized enough

Web/.200" line too big/not sized enough, very common

Shoulder angle in the chamber doesn't match the die giving false bump measurement. Rare but I have seen it.

Measuring all those dimensions of a piece of new brass that chambers against a fired case that won't chamber will tell you a lot.

 

[Cdv717]

Ok sleepinggaint, i understand what you mean by sanding the a shell holder or the bottom of the die but correct me if im wrong. I am able to bump the shoulder .0085 back with my current setup and chamber the round perfectly, by sanding material off the bottom of the die would allow me to bump the shoulder even more, but thats not what i want to do because of overworking the brass. i want to bump the shoulder .002 like my other rifles and have the bolt close nice. Correct me please if im thinking about this wrong.

 

[swd]

What is the dimension between a piece of new brass, an un sized fired that won't chamber and a sized that won't chamber at the .200 line?
80% chance that will tell the story.

Have a buddy that reloads for a 223 AR? Borrow his small base die.

 

[wvlongshot]

Your current die is bumping back the shoulder but not sizing .200 line area enough. When the shoulder gets back enough to chamber, you've created excessive bump. Get a different die. Or cut the top off a 223 die so the shoulder is gone, or just get a small base 223 die

 

[Uncle Ed]

I do see from my photo that it definitely rubs the case head more on one side than it does on the other hope that isnt out of square to much

The rub marks on the base of the case could mean the case warped when fired. Meaning the base of the case is no longer 90 degrees to the axis of the bore and is tilted. This can happen when one side of the case has a thinner wall thickness and expands more on the thin side.

Also in your photo on the bolt face at the 6:00 position it looks like a thin strip of brass is sticking up. I'm wondering if the ejector hole has a rough edge and has brass sticking at the edge of the ejector hole. Meaning what caused the thin strip of brass to be sticking to the bolt face.

Bottom line, clean the bolt face with a good copper cleaner and remove all the brass. And if you have a runout gauge check the case body and see if it is egg shaped and warped. Also check the rub marks on the rear of your bolt lugs and make sure they are touching evenly.

 

[Cdv717]

Ok Guys you all got this figured out for me. So thought about it all afternoon where i wanted to start with some of the things you guys told me to check. So i pulled out the reloading manual to see the factory specs of the unfired case. Then i compared the measurements of the neck, .200 line, and overall length to my unfired, fired and sized cases. The .200 line measurement was .372 on an unfired case. On the 3x fired cases it was .377. The sized cases with a .002 shoulder bump measured .3745. Thats less than .003 larger than a new unfired case. So i took the above advice and cut the neck off a 3x fired case and tried to chamber it. The bolt was very hard to close. So then i cut the shoulder off completely and chambered it. Closed like BUTTER. Ahhah i said, its a shoulder problem.
So i got out 3 more 3x fired cases that need resized and measured the datum with my wilson case gauge with micrometer top and my hornady comparator (that i havent used since i started using the wilson gauges). The hornady measured 1.086 to the datum. The wilson micrometer top was showing .010 above zero. Anyway i sized a piece of brass and remeasured it. The hornady show that i bumped the should .001 however the wilson micrometer shows it moved like .0035. So using the hornady i bumped the shoulders .0025 and they chambered very nice. Put those cases in the wilson micrometer gage and it shows i bumped the shoulder like .012 , now i use these case gauges for 4 more cartridges i load for with no issues but i am gonna double check them all to the hornady comparator to make sure im bumping the shoulder where i want it on those.
I dont know if the angle of the shoulder in my gauge is wrong or what but im very glad for all the help figuring this thing out.
I wish i had a youtube channel as i would like eveyone to see how this can happen. When you feel like your using the best quality tools to get the job done i never for a minute thought it might be the case gauge.
Sorry for the long reply but i didnt know how to shorten it up and still get my finding across to everyone. Thanks again

 

[Mike Casselton]

That's why I use a candle smoked case to set up my dies.
The smoke will show what is being sized.
Glad you found the problem

 

[Dusty Stevens]

A wilson case gage is good for dropping in sized brass for a military rifle seeing if it meets specs- thats about it. Its not a tool 99% on here use for precision work. Just the differences in chambers render them useless for that task as you have seen. Glad you got it figured out. If you like using the case gage method i suggest you send some well fired cases in to whidden and get his case gage for precise bump measuring

 

[Cdv717]

The worst part is they got me for the $80 micrometer top to measure bump using their case gauges. A machinist friend of mine has told me for years that a micrometer is a more accurate way to measure than a caliper so just made sense to do it that way. However the hornady comparator only touches the datum line, which i see now is the best way to see the actual shoulder bump. Thanks again to all who replied.

 

[Prose]

I had the same issue with a 700 SPS in 17 FB. Knocked it back a little more and it went away.