hang fires in my 6.5x47

[lloydx2]

Sounds like the primer is to soft for whatever reason (not hot enough) for that application. If your getting a click bang the primer is definitely going off. And that means the striker asm is doing its job Right? In my case I was using Fed205m To light a small flash hole in a 308 case. It wasn't reliable. In some cases the primer went off and never lit the powder. But when using the same 205m in 223 or ppc it was 100% My point is in this thread and always has been (if you read my post) That if your getting hang fires click bang (just to be clear) the primer IS going off. Now There could be a problem with the priming compound ( bad,not enough?) and the powder column not getting enough heat. But that doesn't have anything to do with headspace or primer anvil depth etc. These conditions WILL cause a misfire (primer doesn't light)

 

[johara1]

The dasher powder column is a lot shorter than the 6.5x47 same size flash hole, they were all opened to .0625 and the depth is set. One point is that the lot i have is .0005 smaller in diameter than the cci 450's. One gun has a .062 firing pin and the Panda is .068......jim

 

[vainvain]

For 6.5X47, I use 35 gr of N150, Federal 205m primers and 139 gr Lapua, 2625 f/s, the result is very good.

 

[lloydx2]

Good point Jim I was thinking the same thing about dasher. It does replicate the 308 at the case head (width) Double base powder is also hard to ignite. Has something to do with flame retardant coating, I'm not sure. Although I was using 4064 when I had problems (single based) It is however a long extruded powder. But like I said wolf primer could be weak? It happens. Another really good point another poster made was wet powder. I could see where some one storing powder in there garage down in Florida during the summer could get real humid. 5 years ago I started shooting dasher. And used rem 7 1/2 I did this back then because I knew it was a hot primer. It was what I used to light the small primer 308. I was getting cratering in the heat with RE15. So I switched to 450 I never looked back. I have a good friend that shoots BRX He shoots wolf primers with great results (so far) vainvain Ive always been scared of 205s in certain apps They are a great primer though. I see your using a single base powder with that

 

[Milo 2.0]

Zap,
I have a feeling someone is going to bust my butt on this.

I don't think you have enough N550 in your case. It is a light charge with a slow burning powder, it is taking time to build the pressure to push the bullet out of the case.
In the op you never stated what bullet your using.
With a 123 scenar, I run 41.5 gr of N550.
In another gun, with a 130gr Norma, I run 39.3gr of N540.
N560 was way too slow in both guns.
I've experienced the hang fire thing also, in a .338 snipetac. I was using US869 and a 300gr Berger. It's not the most comfortable feeling is it???
Hope you find your problem, soon.

 

[zap]

Milo-2,
you may be correct with not enough powder. According to the Lapua reloading book I have , I am above the starting charge. But, last week when I loaded a few more to try, I put .5 gr more in the case. It seemed like the hang fires were a little faster (not as much of a lull between the click bang). I am not seeing any pressure with the last load of somewhere around 36.0 grains, so I will try to work up some more to see what happens.

I am shooting the 130 Bergers.
Yes , it is rather unpleasant to have the hang fires.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Milo-2,
you may be correct with not enough powder. According to the Lapua reloading book I have , I am above the starting charge. But, last week when I loaded a few more to try, I put .5 gr more in the case. It seemed like the hang fires were a little faster (not as much of a lull between the click bang). I am not seeing any pressure with the last load of somewhere around 36.0 grains, so I will try to work up some more to see what happens.

I am shooting the 130 Bergers.
Yes , it is rather unpleasant to have the hang fires.

*** WORK UP TO LOAD ***
I shoot 39.8 gr. N550 with 139 Scenars.
With 130's I would start around 39.0 gr. and work up from there.

 

[Milo 2.0]

Zap,
This is what I would do.
Load one at 36gr, one 37, 38,39,40,41, 42. Mark them, take them to the range and shoot them through a chronograph.
Check for pressure on each case, stop when pressure is found, or when 1 grain gives a minute velocity increase, because that is a pressure sign.
Determine where to back off to, what velocity you want and go from there.
I'm assuming a custom gun with your chosen chamber, so it will shoot, Now adjust your seating depth for the most accurate load.
I just hope you eliminate the hangfires, and I don't think it is the primer.

I didn't realise this was my first post, I've been a member for awhile, sure hope I'm not coming accross as a "know it all". But I've been down this road, with 140gr of powder hanging instead of the 36gr of these pea shooters! And mighty glad the right side of my face is still intact.
Keep us posted up on your findings.
Miles

 

[Erik Cortina]

I would not load on 1.0 gr. increments, that is too much. Load in 0.5 gr. increments and load 3 of each charge, unless you are "the one" that has the chronograph that is 100% accurate and 100% reliable.

Loading precision ammunition is not as simple as choosing the speed you want, the gun tells you what it likes, you can't tell it what to like.

Good luck.

 

[zap]

Yes,
I agree Erik, .5 is what I was and and will always do, no more than that. As I might have stated in above posts, I am shooting a Savage target action, with a Shilen Barrel. My last powder charge was somewhere around 36.0 gr of N550. I will work up in .5 gr increments and see if they eventually go away.

Regardless, I am switching to br4 primers, as I am seeing too much cratering from the wolfs (I think my bolt head needs a greg tannel bush job). But I will continue with the wolfs with the N550, just because I and others are probably currios to see if a bigger powder charge will make them go away.

 

[lloydx2]

Primers Cratering, Sounds like your getting good working pressure. But you will still want to bush it. Even with 450 Let us know the results Lloyd

 

[Milo 2.0]

I would not load on 1.0 gr. increments, that is too much. Load in 0.5 gr. increments and load 3 of each charge, unless you are "the one" that has the chronograph that is 100% accurate and 100% reliable.

Loading precision ammunition is not as simple as choosing the speed you want, the gun tells you what it likes, you can't tell it what to like.

Good luck.

I'll have to agree with you on going up in .5gr increments, especially on the smaller cases. But running the test I explained to Zap is a simple and easy way to find the pressure stopping point for your components in a specific rifle.
Like you posted earlier, "work up to your load", =good advice. But I still like to know where and when I'm going to get the ejector mark on my case heads, and back down from there.

And yes I would hope one would not trust their chronograph completely, without comparing it to others. I've shot a specific load through five different ones, so I think I can somewhat get a handle on what mine is reading.

As for not expecting a certain speed out of your load, I disagree. If your not getting the performance out of the components you're using, you have to try a different combination. If the op is only going to get 2500fps out his load with a 130 Berger, he is basicly shooting a .260 Remington. The reason we choose a rifle with a certain cartridge is we want the performance of that round. If the performance isn't there in the 6,5x47 Lapua, why have it? There is no need to pay for the pricey components-brass if you are not going to get expected velocities.
As for a rifle telling me what wants.......... maybe that is why I got rid of my Weatherby's, I never could understand that Japanese shit. And I sure hope my Beneli shotguns don't start backtalking me.

 

[Redhighpower]

I would also suggest checking the firing protusion. There is a spec. for that, you might be on the short side.

 

[zap]

Ok,
I went shooting yesterday morning. I loaded some more with N550 and the wolf primers shooting the 130's. I loaded 37.5, 38.0, and 38.5. Everything was going good until I got to the 38.5 loads. No hang fires. Then, with my 2nd or 3rd round with 38.5, only a click, not even a hangfire.

When I got home, I disassembled the round and noticed something strange with the powder. It had some kernels that looked like a rusty orange color, only a few ( 100-200 maybe ). It had a different odor to it also, very pungent smell.
I then dumped a little out from the 1 pound jug of N550 on a piece of white paper to compare the two. The kernels were all black, just like I was expecting. My guess is the primer must have done something to the powder that was closest to the bottom of the case causing the orange color.

Then I carefully pushed the primer out and it looked just like a primer that was fired, but it never actually fired.
I have fired primers before and their is no mistake when they go off. This one only made a click from the pin. No noise at all.

I am officially done using the wolf primers in my 6.5x 47 lapua. I will try them in some other caliber someday. For some reason above my knowledge, they just will not perform for my rifle consistently with the n550. :-\

The n550 worked fine with the br4 primers yesterday.

 

[zap]

I would also suggest checking the firing protusion. There is a spec. for that, you might be on the short side.

That was the very first thing I checked when I cleaned the firing pin and spring a few weeks ago when the first hang fires started. It seemed to be in the specs I got from the savage guys in the savageshooters forum.

Thanks for all the replies everyone. I am glad I am not the only one this has happened to.

 

[lloydx2]

Zap The primer went off. The reason it didn't look normal is because the powder didn't burn Trust me. That's the reason the powder looked and smelled funny. Was it warmer this day than it was before. This could be the reason for more successful ignition. Theres nothing wrong with your fire control assembly or your reloading technique. Your not getting enough fire under a hard to ignite double base powder. Do you have another powder (single base) to try with the same primer? Ill bet its works

 

[Erik Cortina]

Get some CCI 450's.

 

[zap]

Erik,
I notice that most of the people shooting this caliber are using the 450's.

Would br4's be ok to use ?

I have 2000 of them and have started using them recently with no issues.

Would the 450's be a better choice for this caliber ?

 

[Erik Cortina]

If BR4's are working for you then keep using them, I have always used 450's with no issues.