H4895 and A5477 Reduced Loads Hunting

[USAFRet]

I was loading up some .223 load development rounds today with H4895 and remembered about this thread .
So when I had finished the .223 , I grabbed some 308 brass and put together some rounds as a load development to see if I can improve on the previous load of 35gn .
When I originally made this load up for a neighbour I just loaded 35gn ( 130gn Speer HP ) and it shot OK so didn't pursue it any further .
Todays loads start at 33gn and go up in 1gn increments to 37gn .
It will be interesting to see how much difference there is with 1gn increases .

Please post results.

I just loaded some A5477 130 grain Interlocks and 120 grain SSTs today. Run between 35-36 grains for the 120s and 34-35 grains for the 130s. Expecting between 2400-2500fps. The 120s are way shorter than the 130s. Odd look with such a long case and short bullet. The 120s ended up with a COL of 3.165. Max SAAMI COL for a 270 is 3.34. Using the OAL gauge the 120 maximum was 3.296. I could have backed .020, but that short bullet it does not have a lot of real estate to grab, so I am sticking with the recommended length I am learning and just amazing how the bullet shape can change the chamber OAL of the cartridge.

 

[gldprimr]

Please post results.

I just loaded some A5477 130 grain Interlocks and 120 grain SSTs today. Run between 35-36 grains for the 120s and 34-35 grains for the 130s. Expecting between 2400-2500fps. The 120s are way shorter than the 130s. Odd look with such a long case and short bullet. The 120s ended up with a COL of 3.165. Max SAAMI COL for a 270 is 3.34. Using the OAL gauge the 120 maximum was 3.296. I could have backed .020, but that short bullet it does not have a lot of real estate to grab, so I am sticking with the recommended length I am learning and just amazing how the bullet shape can change the chamber OAL of the cartridge.View attachment 1410367

I’ve settled on a velocity band of 2550 - 2600 fps with my 6.5 Grendel using bullets weighing between 120 - 129 grains. If you zero ~ 1.5 high at 100 yards then you’re at ~ +/- 1.5” from point of aim from muzzle to 200 yards which is closer than I can hold shooting off hand. I have had NO problem killing white tails with any of these loads which depending on bullet used weighed 120, 125 and 129 grains over the course of the last 5 seasons. Pick one of your loads that is accurate in your rifle in these velocity ranges and it will very effectively kill deer with only modest recoil.

 

[USAFRet]

I’ve settled on a velocity band of 2550 - 2600 fps with my 6.5 Grendel using bullets weighing between 120 - 129 grains. If you zero ~ 1.5 high at 100 yards then you’re at ~ +/- 1.5” from point of aim from muzzle to 200 yards which is closer than I can hold shooting off hand. I have had NO problem killing white tails with any of these loads which depending on bullet used weighed 120, 125 and 129 grains over the course of the last 5 seasons. Pick one of your loads that is accurate in your rifle in these velocity ranges and it will very effectively kill deer with only modest recoil.

SSTs are what you are using in those velocity ranges?

I have a Grendel myself. Have yet to start working loads. I have some 120-125 grain Partitions and Ballistic Tips I bought a while back.

 

[gldprimr]

SSTs are what you are using in those velocity ranges?

I have a Grendel myself. Have yet to start working loads. I have some 120-125 grain Partitions and Ballistic Tips I bought a while back.

I killed a couple of deer the first year with Hornady factory 6.5 Grendel ammunition loaded with 123 gr. SSTs, after that I’ve successively each subsequent season killed deer with the 6.5 Grendel using 100 gr. Nosler Partition, 125 gr. Nosler Partition, 120 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip and this year three using Nosler 129 gr. ABLR. All worked but I’d say for deer I like the 120 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip and 129 gr. ABLR the best. At this point I think I’ve settled on the 129 gr. ABLR, if I didn’t have those I’d use the 120 gr. BT. I loaded the 125 gr. Partition in event I saw some feral pigs but they didn’t show up so switched back to the Ballistic Tips before trying the ABLR.

 

[USAFRet]

I killed a couple of deer the first year with Hornady factory 6.5 Grendel ammunition loaded with 123 gr. SSTs, after that I’ve successively each subsequent season killed deer with the 6.5 Grendel using 100 gr. Nosler Partition, 125 gr. Nosler Partition, 120 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip and this year three using Nosler 129 gr. ABLR. All worked but I’d say for deer I like the 120 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip and 129 gr. ABLR the best. At this point I think I’ve settled on the 129 gr. ABLR, if I didn’t have those I’d use the 120 gr. BT. I loaded the 125 gr. Partition in event I saw some feral pigs but they didn’t show up so switched back to the Ballistic Tips before trying the ABLR.

Thank you for that information. Very helpful.

 

[gldprimr]

Thank you for that information. Very helpful.

Welcome

 

[USAFRet]

I went to the range and unfortunately I did not have time to do the testing I needed to. Went straight from a doctor appointment and only had an hour and a half and I was helping a buddy with some handloads for his AR-10.

The Rem 700 Mountain has a thin barrel and after 3-4 shots you can cook an egg on it. Had to wait 10-15 min for it to cool down. So, I will have to go back.

I can say, my velocities are 200-300 fps faster that what Hodgdon advertised on the data they sent. I definitely have to back down the 120 grain load. I was very satisfied with the reduced recoil, though. I did not have time to do group testing, either. So, I will get there early on Saturday.

 

[gldprimr]

The load for the 130 gr. Interlock looks promising though nothing wrong with the other either. Be interesting to see what the SD is on the 130 gr. load with a larger sample size though of course what really matters is how accurate it is. At 2700 fps if it’s accurate and recoil is acceptable I’d take it hunting and kill deer with it.

 

[harro]

On another forum of which I’m a member there is a thread just started about reduced loads .
It was mentioned that the cases used for reduced loads should be kept seperate from full power load cases , because there can be issues when reduced load cases are then used for full powder loads .
Can anyone shed some light onto this phenomenon ?
Is it a real thing , or urban/internet myth ?

 

[USAFRet]

The load for the 130 gr. Interlock looks promising though nothing wrong with the other either. Be interesting to see what the SD is on the 130 gr. load with a larger sample size though of course what really matters is how accurate it is. At 2700 fps if it’s accurate and recoil is acceptable I’d take it hunting and kill deer with it.

That is exactly what I am seeing. I am very pleased. I have more loads. but did not have time to dig in further at the range. Will be going out Saturday gathering more data and doing some accuracy testing.

Especially happy with the reduced recoil. It was like I was shooting a different rifle.

 

[robert8904]

On another forum of which I’m a member there is a thread just started about reduced loads .
It was mentioned that the cases used for reduced loads should be kept seperate from full power load cases , because there can be issues when reduced load cases are then used for full powder loads .
Can anyone shed some light onto this phenomenon ?
Is it a real thing , or urban/internet myth ?

Many reduced loads don't develop enough pressure to fully form the brass to the chamber. This can cause the case shoulder to get set back a little, maybe by .001 to .003" in my experience. I think the firing pin whams the case forward hard enough to cause this. The primers will be backed out a little after firing when this happens.

I keep this set back brass separate. It does not seem to set back much more in subsequent loadings. If you are looking for velocities in the 1800-2200 fps range, pistol powders like Unique, 2400, BE86 and others will develop more pressure which helps keep the cases formed to the chamber.

 

[USAFRet]

Many reduced loads don't develop enough pressure to fully form the brass to the chamber. This can cause the case shoulder to get set back a little, maybe by .001 to .003" in my experience. I think the firing pin whams the case forward hard enough to cause this. The primers will be backed out a little after firing when this happens.

I keep this set back brass separate. It does not seem to set back much more in subsequent loadings. If you are looking for velocities in the 1800-2200 fps range, pistol powders like Unique, 2400, BE86 and others will develop more pressure which helps keep the cases formed to the chamber.

I am not looking for velocities that low. Just hunting velocities that are fine for whitetail out to 300 with reduced recoil from normal loads. That load achieved that and think I might even look at backing it down to 2500-2600 for the 130 grain. I need to be at about 2400-2500 for the 120 SST. At the current velocity, if I shoot a deer at a short distance, it will disentegrate.

 

[nakneker]

I didn’t read through the thread but I’ll post a link below from Hodgdon in case someone else hasn’t. Hodgdon has a formula for reduced loads and H4895. Pretty easy to do. Hodgdon states it can be used for any cartridge they list H4895 load data, I’m assuming that means any cartridge that Hodgdon lists load data for.

I use H4895 for quite a few cartridges to easy recoil a bit especially when my kids were growing. I used it enough to buy a good stash and I still use it when taking nephews and nieces out hunting. I use it for one rifle I use which is a Ruger number #1 with 165 grain Sierra game changers, I get great accuracy too.

I also use 5744 in a lot of straight wall cartridges like 45-70 and 444 marlin. Takes the sting out if your shooting 20+ rounds a session. It’s surprisingly accurate too. It’s leaves what looks like big burnt kernels in the barrel that kind of alarmed me the first time I used it in my Ruger #1 45-70 but that has no long term affect in accuracy or barrel dirtiness, just look weird. The Group I added in the pictures was at 77 yards with a 444 Marlin, 300 gr XTPs, 5744 and star line brass, first load I tried.

https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads.pdf

 

[USAFRet]

I reckon it's time to play with seating depth. Dig not get close to hunting groups. Really impressed with the SD and ES of the 5744, though.

So the question is, do I seat deeper or shallower? I have an OAL gauge and I heard a good starting point is .20 off the lands. I have also heard just start seating the bullet deeper, i.e. with a recommended COL of 3.210, load at 3.200, 3.190, etc. to test accuracy.

 

[harro]

Shot my reduced loads yesterday .
It was just a casual session with my recently acquired Howa 308 .
I live in Australia so some of the numbers won't be what you guys are used to .
2206H is exactly the same powder as H4895
We work in metric so these groups were shot at 100m = 109.3yrds
21mm = 0.83 inches
25mm = 0.98 inches

I had loaded up rounds at 33gn - 37gn in 1 gn increments .
35 and 37 showed the best initial results and I've loaded up some more at those weights to confirm things then I'll start playing with seating depth etc .

Here's my helper yesterday , I just shoot near the shed on our property and she wandered over when I had finished .

 

[harro]

Loading up some more .

 

[Mark611]

Just another thought on the Grendel cartridge, instead of trying to reduce a monster case like the 270 or 308win compared to the 6.5 Grendel, the velocities and bullet weights are in the same ball park as the reduced load information as you are getting for the 270 and 308win, IMO the 6.5GR doesn't recoil much more than a 5.56 fired from an AR platform, if you can handle an AR chambered in 5.56 you'll be able to shoot the 6.5GR with ease JMO.