Gunsmiths and build deadlines

[tenring]

Several years ago, I had a well known smith build a 6BR on REM 700 action for me. He promised to finish it in 3 or 4 months. So I would call him occasionally and he would say, yeah I'm working on it, probably another month." It actually took him 16 months. I later found out his regular customers work was finished ahead of mine.

 

[butchlambert]

Well, this is an odd business. For me once I have all I need I can turn out a rifle in a couple weeks. Chambers and other metal work I will turn around in a week. Complete rifles are a pain. I am doing 3 right now. When I ordered the stocks I was told 3 weeks. I knew that wasn't gonna happen so I told my customers a couple months. Well, 4 months later I get the stocks. It wasn't until they were ready to ship I noticed an issue with the inlets I was not happy with. So he rushes me out some new blanks. I am spending my hunting season re-doing these stocks, free. Stuff happens. This is not a business I would want to base my whole lively hood on. So at the end of the day, I was way late on my estimate and I hate that.

That's what I was trying to tell the guy.. To purchase everything he wants incorporated into the build then mail it to the builder.. All it takes then is a bedding job (if not a chassis) and a chambering... Everything else can be done by a 10 year old.. If he wants a Cerokote job then the curing time will take longer.. The actual painting needs to be done in stages to provide a good base (don't let painters rip you off) so that would be intermingled between the other work not one direct all day job...

You a gun schmidt?

 

[Thud]

One of the big issues with the "Smiths" of note they are 1 or 2 man shops and the spend a huge part of the day on the phone answering questions from the same guys over and over again.

They also will do small jobs for the locals and your builds get pushed back and back.

A lot don't have spare funds to keep a small stock of parts and others stuff needed for your builds.
Issues happen when they borrow your stuff to finish a job and need to replace your parts(has happened to me many times.)

I have seen smiths take money up front for a large job and promise a 3-4 month turn around and its never finished and the customer asks for the funds back and is told I don't have the funds to pay you back.

The list goes on and on. They maybe good guys but as buisness a lot of they aren't.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

The only deposit a gunsmith should get is for parts. I know i wont take a dime over what the parts cost and will get my labor money when im done with the job

 

[bowfisher]

Sorry to hear. I have a local smith. Drop parts off on Monday. One week later complete rifle. Allbeit is not one of the big name smiths he delivers on time and his skills are impeccable. Should give him a try. EGA Gun Works. Ask for Miike 13197502907. I can send you photos and or group sizes. All are benchrest quality. Scott

Don't be telling everyone about Mike. I like my turn-around times the way they are. Same day.

 

[shortgrass]

If your gunsmith has another job sometimes that comes into play as well. Usually your gunsmith knows- as my customers can attest- when somebody needs something done so if i have a customer going to a match next week and just needs a barrel he may get that before a guy that needs his deer rifle in 8mo. Its all about letting us know whats going on and not lie about it either. A good relationship goes a long way. When is gunsmiths day? They have secretary day, bosses day, grandparents day- i want a gunsmiths day. And i want presents and probably cake.

You won't get presents or cake. Just threads like this one lumping all gunsmiths together as slouches who can't be trusted.

 

[butchlambert]

If your gunsmith has another job sometimes that comes into play as well. Usually your gunsmith knows- as my customers can attest- when somebody needs something done so if i have a customer going to a match next week and just needs a barrel he may get that before a guy that needs his deer rifle in 8mo. Its all about letting us know whats going on and not lie about it either. A good relationship goes a long way. When is gunsmiths day? They have secretary day, bosses day, grandparents day- i want a gunsmiths day. And i want presents and probably cake.

You won't get presents or cake. Just threads like this one lumping all gunsmiths together as slouches who can't be trusted.

Unfortunately you are correct.

 

[XTR]

I will comment that I have with few exceptions always taken my parts to Predator or had them delivered there. When I first started in this game not so many yrs ago a good shooter recommended them to me. I get my barrels chambered in a week, if it's a bedding job and a barrel, probably two weeks. I take a lot of stuff in there, Jim has joked that I rebarrel every 3 months, so I probably get my stuff moved up the line sometimes. They have built guns for some pretty competitive shooters in several disciplines from HP Sling, F class and pistols for Bianchi.

My point though is if you can find a local guy who is a good gun plumber it's worth your while to get to know them and have them do your work. Being able to drop in with the parts and talk to the guy doing the work, and pick it up, with out any shipping or phone/email is a great asset.

 

[BenPerfected]

Is it just me or is finding a gunsmith that will actually get the work done in the time frame that they quote you getting as rare as the mystical unicorn? Don't get me wrong, I know it takes time for the top smiths to get work done. There's a reason they're good and care and precision is taken with each buid but they should have some type of time frame of how long it's taking to get builds out. My last two builds by smiths that are well known but I won't name I was quoted six months and eleven months. The six month build I have been waiting over ten months and the smith from Louisiana that quoted me eleven months I patiently waited over two years before I finally told him to ship my parts back and I'd have someone else do it. Just don't see how you can miss your builds by that much. Guess it's just me venting, wanting my toys for Christmas!! Lol

Kayle,
My approach is to get an commitment/agreement on the delivery time and price with the gunsmith. After all the parts are secured and if he isn't compete on the agreed delivery date (maybe allow an extra week)....it is likely time to move on. Another approach at the start is to offer a bonus for timely completion and the same $ discount to you if he is late. I am with you and hate poor service.
Ben

 

[Canadian bushman]

Is it just me or is finding a gunsmith that will actually get the work done in the time frame that they quote you getting as rare as the mystical unicorn? Don't get me wrong, I know it takes time for the top smiths to get work done. There's a reason they're good and care and precision is taken with each buid but they should have some type of time frame of how long it's taking to get builds out. My last two builds by smiths that are well known but I won't name I was quoted six months and eleven months. The six month build I have been waiting over ten months and the smith from Louisiana that quoted me eleven months I patiently waited over two years before I finally told him to ship my parts back and I'd have someone else do it. Just don't see how you can miss your builds by that much. Guess it's just me venting, wanting my toys for Christmas!! Lol

Kayle,
My approach is to get an commitment/agreement on the delivery time and price with the gunsmith. After all the parts are secured and if he isn't compete on the agreed delivery date (maybe allow an extra week)....it is likely time to move on. Another approach at the start is to offer a bonus for timely completion and the same $ discount to you if he is late. I am with you and hate poor service.
Ben

I have offered my smith double to complete a rifle in two weeks. He accepted. I wouldnt hesitate to do so again. He is very good and his prices are rock bottom to start with.

 

[hogpatrol]

I think gunsmithing and rifle building is a lot like aviation. To become a millionaire, start out as a multi-millionaire. ;D

 

[ARshuter]

Here's a couple observations I've seen over the years. On several sites I read gunsmiths saying how busy they are but yet they are on the sites typing every 3 to 5 minutes. On the other hand I have customer come in my shop and want to BS for 4 hours. Then ask how long till my guns done or my favorite " there's no hurry" 20 minutes later the phone rings and the same customer says " I just got home and was wondering if my guns done yet." Now I'm done with my lunch so back to pleasing customers.

 

[MDM]

Another option is buying a lathe and learning to do it yourself. If you are in the game for the long haul and shoot a lot, it's well worth it. You will find you can barrel up a perfect chamber and crown, and do the load work up all in a days time and still have time to cook a few steaks and drink a few beers all before sundown.

 

[nosualc]

An old saying: If you want it done that bad, that's exactly what you'll get.

Personally I think "fast" is the least interesting quality a gunsmith can have.

I would prefer to have a gunsmith who does exactly what is agreed upon, with as much attention to detail and quality as he is capable. And, I'm willing to wait for it.

-nosualc

 

[Terry]

Well, color me lucky!

I have worked with Lester Bruno, Jay Cutright, Greg Wahlstrom, and had excellent service from each.
When the component shortage was upon us Lester was crazy busy so I stopped sending work. Perhaps he has time again.
Greg and Jay have continued to produce excellent work. It doesn't hurt that I plan ahead. I have the barrels I need for 2016 in hand
and a few spares in stock. Planning ahead usually cures the "I have to have it now problem."

My thanks to Greg, Jay, and Lester!

Terry

 

[Eddie Harren]

MDM, you've got it figured out. Go for it.

 

[SDWhirlwind]

MDM, you've got it figured out. Go for it.

Eddie, lets see if I got you right,....you mean spending $4K or so for a good lathe and at least that much more for tooling, extra reamers in case you want to build something, extra blanks etc etc so you can build your own one holer in a day from everything you learned doing the last 3-4 barrel jobs isn't worth it???

I have 2 lathes, at one time 20 premium barrel blanks, 25+ reamers and now haven't built a rifle or used them much in almost 2 yrs. All pd for. Even an illiterate retirement investment consultant will eventually come to the conclusion that it is way smarter to plan ahead and perhaps wait a bit than spend $10K on equipment and taxes, insurance, and heat etc on a place to 'store' it all for one or two barrel jobs a year isn't exactly an Einstein idea! While I also agree that giving your parts and dollars to someone you trust will deliver in under a year is frustrating etc I will assure you that buying all the equipment to do a half dozen of your own in your lifetime isn't the solution. Been there doing that, now sold half of the blanks and over half of the reamers I thought I might use some day, most all at a small loss. Buy a blank when you find one or BEFORE you need it and maybe a reamer to your specs so you cannot blame anyone for waiting on those, then schedule a slot for when you think you will need it and NOT for when you want it yesterday and things will be less stressfull. Majority of society have no patience and NO understanding of running a business part or full time and dealing with dozens of customers just like them!!!!

There comes a point where you can no longer justify building more rifles when you aren't shooting 3/4 of what you have built. Might be only 4 or 5 or might be a few more but at some point that machinery and tooling investment and space to store it won't seem like such a great deal, trust me!!!

Case in point, I ordered a stock from McM June 1 as I wanted to try and do one last nice rifle to leave son or nephew. I ordered a Rem Hunter pattern with Krieger #4 BC figuring if I cannot get a #4 I can open it to a Rem Varmint that I have on hand and waited the 4 months quoted. They called Oct 1 that it was done, I was a happy camper to say the least. It arrives in McM Hunter which I didn't even know there was such a pattern and inletted for a Shilen #4. Difference is the McM Hunter has slender forend and it was inletted for biggest barrel possible. Someone/somehow when transferred from my order @ 24hr campfire to McM order things changed as sticker on stock said one thing, order another. So now another 4 month wait for what I want vs. what I got. If that had happened with a customer who is gonna get blamed, McM or your smith for the 4 month 'mistake'?????

Patience, pre planning or buy all your own stuff, learn to do it yourself and blame yourself when you still don't have it yesterday Grasshoppa's!!!

Respectfully Submitted without taking sides!
Dennis

 

[SHootSTraight22]

Another option is buying a lathe and learning to do it yourself. If you are in the game for the long haul and shoot a lot, it's well worth it. You will find you can barrel up a perfect chamber and crown, and do the load work up all in a days time and still have time to cook a few steaks and drink a few beers all before sundown.

Agreed Sir,, and you also don't have to worry about someone using your custom reamer on other guns but yours!!

 

[MDM]

Good old iron can still be found if you are patient. I don't have any more than $3500 in my lathe and tooling need to do a barrel job. I didn't get all the stuff I needed at once either, but it is possible to go from not knowing the difference from a cross slide and cross walk on day one, to chambering your own stuff and winning with it a few months later.

 

[DSP10]

If your gunsmith has another job sometimes that comes into play as well. Usually your gunsmith knows- as my customers can attest- when somebody needs something done so if i have a customer going to a match next week and just needs a barrel he may get that before a guy that needs his deer rifle in 8mo. Its all about letting us know whats going on and not lie about it either. A good relationship goes a long way. When is gunsmiths day? They have secretary day, bosses day, grandparents day- i want a gunsmiths day. And i want presents and probably cake.

You won't get presents or cake. Just threads like this one lumping all gunsmiths together as slouches who can't be trusted.

You mean like lumping all machinists together as run of the mill (pun intended) machine operators.