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Gun vs Rifle

Lazydays said:
ebb said:
60 miles? If the ship were moving it would be in the next zip code before the round hit the target.

an M107 shooting at sea level on a target at the same level will go an honest 23 miles (depends on who you ask), but shoot from a hill top that is elevated to about 1500 feet above sea level will give you close to 27 miles if the target is at sea level. The problem is that like their 16" cousins, they are not all that accurate. The same platform (M107/M110) with an 8" howitzer barrel will hit a garbage can lid round after round at 9 miles from a position on hard packed clay. The 175mm round the M107 shot was a scaled down clone of the old Hornaday secant ogive bullet, except that it predates that bullet by several years. The powder charge is about 12" in diamter and 5'7" long (zone 3), and a serious handfull to hand up to the loader. It's primer tube is about two feet long!
gary

Gary

"It's primer tube is about two feet long!"

That would be the equivalent of a 'flash tube'! ;D ;)
 
Lazydays said:
boogershooter said:
A drill sargents definition usually trumps all others,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NP8y63Ms4o

that and their sixth grade education! What I told is taught in just about every arty school on this planet. I might also add here that virtually all main guns on any capital ship are listed as rifles due to their trajectory. Dig out your Websters Dictionary
gary



Do I perceive some sarcasm in your post? I am not sure how to take your remark about Drill Sergeants which I assume includes Drill Instructors and their sixth grade education. I know several Marine Drill Instructors with College degrees including one with a Masters Degree. As far as you and your Webster's Dictionary use of the terms capital ship and their rifles, you may be technically correct but in reality those terms are seldom used. A 16" gun was just that a 16" gun. My cousin was a Petty Officer 1st Class Gunners Mate on a 16" turret on the Battleship Iowa, I guess according to Webster's Dictionary he should have been a Petty Officer 1st Class Rifle Mate.
 
Would those big Navy Rifles compete as black powder cartridge guns or simple black powder breech loading rifles?

And, did you know, the armor steel sheeting making up the hull of the ship carrying those 16" rifles was 16" thick? Ship building rule, war ships have hull cladding equal in thickness to their biggest gun.
 
normmatzen said:
Would those big Navy Rifles compete as black powder cartridge guns or simple black powder breech loading rifles?

And, did you know, the armor steel sheeting making up the hull of the ship carrying those 16" rifles was 16" thick? Ship building rule, war ships have hull cladding equal in thickness to their biggest gun.

Yep. Torpedo blasts could not penetrate the hull's armor with a direct hit from the side. So what enemies started doing was detonating them below the center of the ship's hull and creating a massive air cavity under the ship where it would buckle under it's own weight while gravity pulled on the center of the hull in the cavity and cracked it.
 
we always called them primer tubes, but your right. They were odd looking, and close to an inch in diameter with a lot of holes in them. Never saw one before being fired, so don't actually know. I trained on the M107 / M110 platform, as well as the M108 / M109's a little bit. The 107 is a beast, and as dangerous to the shooter as it is to the end user. Barrel life is rated at an 80 count. That would be 80 rounds with a zone three charge. Then you gotta be thinking about a new barrel and breech. The barrel is 32 feet long and weighs 19K pounds! We did it with two ten ton wreckers. When you shoot the first five or six rounds with a new barrel, you use a lanyard that's over fifty feet long! For close contact use (real close) they simply lower the barrel to a minus three degrees and load the powder with no round in the chamber. You've never seen a flame thrower like that one! Plus you need really good sun glasses after dark. On 155's, I've shot WP with the lowest rated charge and one second on a 565 fuse. Round goes off right out in front of you. Two seconds will get you about two hundred fifty yards before the round explodes. (also done that one several times)
gary
 
snakepit said:
Lazydays said:
boogershooter said:
A drill sargents definition usually trumps all others,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NP8y63Ms4o

that and their sixth grade education! What I told is taught in just about every arty school on this planet. I might also add here that virtually all main guns on any capital ship are listed as rifles due to their trajectory. Dig out your Websters Dictionary
gary

actually some of my closest friends are DI's and Drill Sargents from the old school. The issue with calling a weapon a gun is purely show for them (if you get him to admit it). We've discussed this more than once, and their point of view (well taken I might add) is purely the fact that they wanted you to have respect for whatever weapon system you were operating. A loaded firearm is not to be taken for granted at anytime. My very first platoon sargent was the last Darby Ranger in the US military. I've seen him send many a fool out to the parade field to push a .308 case with his nose while reciting the poem. We never had a problem as I knew right away that was what he wanted. He taught me how to shoot after he learned that I'd never shot anything bigger than a BB gun. (liked to beat my head silly with that red & green sign). We lost a good man when Howard passed on like so many WWII vets have. His hobby was bar room brawls, and the guy would seriously hurt you in less than half a minute. I learned respect for that man almost instantly, and everytime I saw him in dress uniform I was amazed at all the stuff he had on there (four sets of jump wings alone). His CIB was a max award, and it was said that he could have had five stars inside the wreath. But his most cherished award was his path finder's tab plus his glider patch. I might add that he had a masters in Psychology from the University of Georgia.
gary



Do I perceive some sarcasm in your post? I am not sure how to take your remark about Drill Sergeants which I assume includes Drill Instructors and their sixth grade education. I know several Marine Drill Instructors with College degrees including one with a Masters Degree. As far as you and your Webster's Dictionary use of the terms capital ship and their rifles, you may be technically correct but in reality those terms are seldom used. A 16" gun was just that a 16" gun. My cousin was a Petty Officer 1st Class Gunners Mate on a 16" turret on the Battleship Iowa, I guess according to Webster's Dictionary he should have been a Petty Officer 1st Class Rifle Mate.
 
normmatzen said:
Would those big Navy Rifles compete as black powder cartridge guns or simple black powder breech loading rifles?

And, did you know, the armor steel sheeting making up the hull of the ship carrying those 16" rifles was 16" thick? Ship building rule, war ships have hull cladding equal in thickness to their biggest gun.

Have never examined a powder charge in the flesh that was used ship board, but all arty used nitro cellulose in my day. The way to tell is when you burn left over powder. At six hundred yards an AP round from a standard German 88 would do a honest six inches of armor plate and maybe a little more. The later 88mm PAK's and the 128mm would go about 10" of armor plate. (tungsten carbide tipped warhead). A heat round will go deeper if there was a round for the 128mm round. A sabot from an M1 tank is known to pass thru both side of a turret with ease
gary
 

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