Gun vault temperature control

[wvlongshot]

With a vault above ground, contained within the middle of a larger building, trying to address possible heating and cooling issues. Humidity is not bad in my area, but winter lows will require some interior heating. Propane needs air and leaves moisture, so electric baseboard seems best logical choice.
Any thoughts or advice?

 

[JRS]

What kind of material is your vault made from?

 

[wvlongshot]

Will be concrete floor with drain for dehumidifier, poured walls and top.
Will have power inside

 

[JRS]

Will be concrete floor with drain for dehumidifier, poured walls and top.
Will have power inside

Consider the moisture vapor emission with concrete.

 

[wvlongshot]

From floor? Or rest of it

 

[JRS]

From floor? Or rest of it

Both. Is there an existing slab in place with a moisture barrier that you are going to pour on? Do you have to comply with local building codes? I helped a friend in Arizona build one. By the time all was said and done, he had a small fortune tied up in it, and always has to deal with surface rust on his guns.

 

[wvlongshot]

This is a new build. Vapor barrier, foam, concrete floor separate from rest of the building. Basically it will be built, then the rest of the shop built around it. Rest of the building will be insulated, just not constantly climate controlled. Like a basement would/could be.

 

[wvlongshot]

No building codes to contend with.
Did your friend not have a way to control humidity in interior?

 

[JRS]

No building codes to contend with.
Did your friend not have a way to control humidity in interior?

Yes, he did, although humidity in the "valley of the sun" is extremely low.

 

[Schism]

Any way to run a small HVAC unit to the vault? My vault is built into a basement corner using two foundation walls and two additional 8" reinforced concrete walls with a concrete ceiling. I ran (1 each) 4" HVAC forced air and return air duct in through the concrete ceiling to control the humidity and temp in the vault.

 

[ppaul]

Consider radiant heat in the floor. I have it in my house and shop and never deal with rust on any of my tools. Lots of cast iron. I live in MN so we do have large shifts in temp and humidity. Love the heat!

 

[wvlongshot]

Hvac is an option. I'm trying to get it right the first time. A mini split Hvac system would work well.

 

[wvlongshot]

Radiant is also an option that I hadn't thought about. Thanks for the info gentlemen.

 

[hoz53]

With a vault above ground, contained within the middle of a larger building, trying to address possible heating and cooling issues. Humidity is not bad in my area, but winter lows will require some interior heating. Propane needs air and leaves moisture, so electric baseboard seems best logical choice.
Any thoughts or advice?

Do you want to keep the temp constant or in other words do you want heating and cooling in the vault? If so id put one of those small split systems heat pumps in it. The inside part looks like a window ac but it only needs tubing and electrical run to it (through wall) has electric heat in it also dor times when the temp gets low. would work as a dehumidifier to but you could add a stand alone dehumidifier in addition if you needed -would just take a drain and electrical.

 

[Shynloco]

With a vault above ground, contained within the middle of a larger building, trying to address possible heating and cooling issues. Humidity is not bad in my area, but winter lows will require some interior heating. Propane needs air and leaves moisture, so electric baseboard seems best logical choice.
Any thoughts or advice?

Ever thought of putting the safe atop a strong wooden pallet so air can circulate all around the safe regardless of the floor you put it on? And then hang a humidifier or put an electric humidifier inside the safe just to be cover all bases?

Alex

 

[SheepDog]

My shop has a mini-split to heat and cool. It dehumidifies when cooling but not when heating. The shop is well insulated; R-19 in the walls and R-60 in the ceiling. The 2x6 construction has 1/2 inch OSB on both sides of the stud walls with concrete board on the outside and 1/2" drywall on the inside. The foundation and slab are both insulated. The shop is 24x28 feet with no inside walls. The first winter I kept the shop warm with the twenty 36 watt light fixtures. What little heat those fluorescent lights put out it kept the shop at 65F even when the temp dropped to single digits.
In your situation you can easily install hot water heat in the floor for heat but that will require a separate air conditioner for the summer. You will need to plan ahead where the inside unit will go because you will need holes in the wall or ceiling to run the lines and drain. You don't want to put a drain in the floor because it will allow moisture into the room. You will need ventilation for the room, a way to circulate fresh air in and exhaust out. I suggest you contact the county to check on building codes. The codes for vaults and safe rooms are setup to protect and withstand earthquake, tornado, hurricane and flood. They use a lot of reinforcing in the floors, walls and ceilings with special reinforcement at all the corners.

 

[dickn52]

My shop has a mini-split to heat and cool. It dehumidifies when cooling but not when heating. The shop is well insulated; R-19 in the walls and R-60 in the ceiling. The 2x6 construction has 1/2 inch OSB on both sides of the stud walls with concrete board on the outside and 1/2" drywall on the inside. The foundation and slab are both insulated. The shop is 24x28 feet with no inside walls. The first winter I kept the shop warm with the twenty 36 watt light fixtures. What little heat those fluorescent lights put out it kept the shop at 65F even when the temp dropped to single digits.
In your situation you can easily install hot water heat in the floor for heat but that will require a separate air conditioner for the summer. You will need to plan ahead where the inside unit will go because you will need holes in the wall or ceiling to run the lines and drain. You don't want to put a drain in the floor because it will allow moisture into the room. You will need ventilation for the room, a way to circulate fresh air in and exhaust out. I suggest you contact the county to check on building codes. The codes for vaults and safe rooms are setup to protect and withstand earthquake, tornado, hurricane and flood. They use a lot of reinforcing in the floors, walls and ceilings with special reinforcement at all the corners.

Wow, you live at my house too? That's exactly what I did but I went with LED strip lighting so my scales wouldn't bounce around.

 

[SheepDog]

When I built my shop LED lights were not yet available. As the fixtures burn out they will be replaced with LED comparable fixtures. If you are living in my house you need to start paying rent! All my scales work with gravity. It is free and uniform even with the buzzing lights. (they don't buzz unless a lamp is going out) I need a lot of light working on my lathe and other power tools. My reloading area is on the east wall and takes up less than 64 square feet out of the 670+ total square feet of floor space. The compressor, lathe, tool benches and work bench take up the entire North wall and part of the West wall. I can walk into my shop from a sunny outside and see perfectly without needing time for my eyes to adjust. I wonder if I could get a suntan in there....

 

[joshb]

Depending on how big the area is, you can get a small dehumidifier to run in the space. It provides some heat in the winter. Concrete walls and floors seem to exude moisture, even in the driest climates. You should provide a drain pipe in a corner, even if it only drops to a small gravel pit below the vapor barrier (6mil plastic) under the concrete floor. Also, I used to use a clear "spray on" moisture barrier when I built basements. I can't remember the name right now, but it was effective. It was applied with a cheep garden sprayer. About $100 for a 5 gallon bucket. Good luck.
Just noticed your #3 post. DOH! A small electric baseboard or even a ceramic heater would do. Radiant "in floor" heat is pricey.

 

[alinwa]

With a vault above ground, contained within the middle of a larger building, trying to address possible heating and cooling issues. Humidity is not bad in my area, but winter lows will require some interior heating. Propane needs air and leaves moisture, so electric baseboard seems best logical choice.
Any thoughts or advice?

I've done a lot of these......owned 3, have one 30ft from my left elbow right now. I've had very good success using an oil-filled radiant heater (DeLonghi, Pelonis) for completely clean heat and a large enough dehumidifier (unit is about 18Wx22Tx8D) that it has a garden hose outlet (along with the collector pan. It's sometimes hard to find the hose bib on the unit)

I rotohammer an 1 1/8 hole diagonally down thru the footers into the free-draining fill near the footing drains and run a cut-off garden hose into the hole.

Turn it all on and walk away. NO rust on guns and stored paperwork is krinkly-dry.

I've also done a number of underground shooting ranges and a few "safe rooms" for hiding out in........these I've added a ventilation system to.

On my current one I just drilled a few more breather holes into the crawlspace area and have them plugged. If I'm ever required to spend time in the vault I'll pull the plugs. (Mine, and many I've done, is perty stealthed. could hide in it....)

My personal view is that penetrations need be tightly controlled as I'm concerned with oxygen seal in the event of house fire.