• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

Gun Control in the Bailout Bill

"Pork" Bailout Bill Could Ban Guns For Millions Of Americans
-- Ask your Senators to oppose HR 1

Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org


"HR 1 is about more than just pork. Millions of gun owners stand to
lose their gun rights without any due process." -- Larry Pratt, GOA
Executive Director


Wednesday, February 11, 2009

The Obama administration is putting a lot of pressure on Congress to
slam through the most recent $800+ billion bailout package before anyone
has an opportunity to read it.

The Obama administration intones that the details are unimportant. The
only thing that matters is the "bigness." And, by shipping a bill of
nearly $900 billion,plus interest) to our children and grandchildren,
the package is really, really big -- bigger, in fact, than the budget of
our entire government for the first 170 years of our country's
existence.

But now that some of the details are finally starting to leak out of
Washington, Gun Owners -- and a lot of other analysts -- are beginning
to look at the fine print. And some of it is particularly scary.

Of particular concern to gun owners are sections 13101 through 13434 of
HR 1, which would set up the infrastructure to computerize the medical
records of ALL AMERICANS in a government-coordinated database.

True, the bill doesn't mandate that the data will be in a giant computer
under the Oval Office. But it does mandate that your medical records be
reduced to a computerized form which is available to it in a second.

This it would do by establishing a National Coordinator for Health
Information Technology -- tasked with, among other things, "providing
information to help guide medical decisions at the time and place of
care."

It should be scary enough that a government bureaucrat is directed by
statute to try to influence your doctor's decisions with respect to your
medical care.

But of even greater concern to gun owners is the fact that a
government-coordinated database,which government can freely access)
will now contain all records of government-provided and private
psychiatric treatment -- including, in particular, the drugs which were
prescribed.

Remember last year's "NICS Improvement Act" -- otherwise known as the
Veterans Disarmament Act? This law codified ATF's attempts to make you
a prohibited person on the basis of a government psychiatrist's finding
that you are a "danger" -- without a finding by any court. Well,
roughly 150,000 battle-scarred veterans have already been unfairly
stripped of their gun rights by the government.

But people who, as kids, were diagnosed with Attention Deficit
Disorder... or seniors with Alzheimer's... or police with Post-Traumatic
Stress Disorder... or people who are now theoretically covered by the
new law... these people have, generally, not suffered the consequences
of its sanctions -- YET. And the chief reason is that their records are
not easily available to the government in a central, easily retrievable,
computerized form.

The bailout bill would change all of that. It would push increasingly
hard to force your private psychiatrist or government-sanctioned
psychiatrist to turn over your psychiatric records to a massive
database. This would be mandated immediately if your doctor does
business with the government.

This would supposedly save Medicare money in connection with medical
treatment. And, the sponsors insist, they would work very hard to
protect your privacy.

But this turns the concept of "privacy" on its head. The privacy which
is MOST important is privacy from the prying eyes of government -- not
privacy of government data against the prying eyes of others. After
all, many government data bases have been hacked in recent years, with
mountains of information stolen.

So, once the government has access to these computerized psychiatric
records, the stage will be set for using that database to take away the
gun rights of those with Alzheimer's, those with ADD, and those with
PTSD.

ACTION: Write your two senators. Urge them to vote against the bailout
bill,HR 1) until it is stripped of provisions which would turn your
psychiatric records over to a central government-coordinated database
against your will -- without you getting your day in court.

You can go to the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center at
http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm to send your Senators the
pre-written e-mail message below.

----- Prewritten Letter -----

Dear Senator:

I am particularly concerned about sections 13101 through 13434 of the
new bailout bill,HR 1). These sections would set up the infrastructure
to computerize the medical records of ALL AMERICANS in a
government-coordinated database, including psychiatric records.

It is scary enough that a government bureaucrat is directed by statute
to try to influence my doctor's decisions with respect to my medical
care.

But of even greater concern to gun owners is the fact that a
government-coordinated database will now contain all records of
government-provided and private psychiatric treatment.

Last year's "NICS Improvement Act" codified ATF's attempts to make a
person a prohibited person on the basis of a government psychiatrist's
finding that he is a "danger" -- without a finding by any court. Well,
roughly 150,000 battle-scarred veterans have already been unfairly
stripped of their gun rights by the government.

Now, this new government-coordinated database threatens the gun rights
of people who, as kids, were diagnosed with Attention Deficit
Disorder... seniors with Alzheimer's... police with Post-Traumatic
Stress Disorder... and many other law-abiding Americans.

Please vote against cloture on HR 1 until this provision is removed.

Sincerely,


****************************

Please do not reply directly to this message, as your reply will
bounce back as undeliverable.

To subscribe to free, low-volume GOA alerts, go to
http://www.gunowners.org/ean.htm on the web. Change of e-mail
address may also be made at that location.

To unsubscribe send a message to
gunowners_list@capwiz.mailmanager.net with the word unsubscribe in
the subject line or use the url below.

Problems, questions or comments? The main GOA e-mail address
goamail@gunowners.org is at your disposal. Please do not add that
address to distribution lists sending more than ten messages per
week or lists associated with issues other than gun rights.
 
ACTION: Write your two senators. Urge them to vote against the bailout
bill,HR 1) until it is stripped of provisions which would turn your
psychiatric records over to a central government-coordinated database
against your will -- without you getting your day in court.

----------------------------------------------------------------

I wish my state had 2 senators to write!!!
 
Not standing up for HR-1, but the computerization of records would reduce our outrageous medical expenses by hundreds of millions of dollars each year. If you will read our 2nd Amendment closely,not the high school version) you'll find that the authors of our Constitution provided a means to limit the ownership of firearms. Such as the words "free men". Meaning that "negroes" at that time couldn't own guns. Yes, they have the power to decide who can own and who can't.
 
If the government is in charge of undertaking this computerization of records....it WILL, without fail,COST several times more that what they claim ....AND....your medical record will NEVER again be PRIVATE......That fact alone is HUGE.....
NO one has ever explained exactly HOW this centralization of records leads to saving money.....just because they say it...don't mean it is true.
EVERYTHING the government touches.....they screw it up....BIG-TIME!
We're on the "fast- track" to socialism....
The U.S.A. 1776- 2008....RIP
The U.S.S.A 2009- ?
 
With that rationale, then you believe since the gov't already restricts full auto.....they might as well restrict every type of firearm anyway.
#h&t happens during time of WAR. FDR enacted similar security measures during WWII, many of which will never be declassified.
 
LH,
This is the brief from Justice Scalia:

"In sum, we hold that the District's ban on handgun possession in the home violates the Second Amendment, as does it's prohibition against rendering any lawful firearm in the home. That the right to keep and bear arms is not unlimited and the decision does not cast doubt on the long standing legislative prohibitions against possession. In Heller, we note that Cruikshank also said the First Amendment did not apply against States and that Presser v Illinois and Miller v Texas had reaffirmed that the Second Amendment limited the authority only of the Federal Government. In sum, the States reserve the right to these limitations".

Note the language used:
in the home
lawful firearm in the home
not unlimited
does not cast doubt
States reserve the right
 
Our congress critter disappeared to have "outside conferences" when the first do or die bailout came up for vote. Of course he went for it inspite of local opposition. Now they're bemoaning lack of oversight even though the FED - Treasury hucksters fronted big bucks before and after on their own. Amazing how the veil has dropped revealing who or what actually controls this so called country. Contrast America of late,or historically) with Thailand recently. Very interesting display of Democracy, ie people voting with their feet. The second is certainly at jeopardy here along with the other nine.

It is instructive to note Lincoln let it slide while jailing opposition newspaper publishers and legitimately elected political opponents, as well as public protestors against his policies. Perhaps the pen, voice, is mightier than the sword, errr semi automatic....
 
patchhound said:
I wonder if the Jews seen it comming...

By the time they saw it coming it was too late. It was named 'Kristallnacht' or 'Night of Broken Glass'. Don't think for a minute that history can't repeat itself if we forget the past.

Lou Baccino
 
You are right on target there Lou. The US along the UK and France had a wonderful opportunity to stop it before it happened. I suppose this is why the US taxpayers send 55 Billion dollars each year to Israel, Germany sends 80 Billion and France has stopped sending money as of a couple of days ago.
Before I am hammered for this, this information comes from the local Federal Archives Building about a 10 minute drive from where I live. More documented information there than anywhere else I have found.
 
Thanks Lou, I wondered how long it`d be before I got a bit on that. LOTS of people dont have a clue about what we got looking at us right now. Will WE stand for liberity? I know for damn sure we dont got many choices...I cant tell the future but I hope to God that it happends a lot later than sooner. There is only one good choice we can make freinds. All we see right know is just a prelued. I`ll let you figure the rest out.,JMO)

I saw a cool sticker on the wall a few days back, it said,' There is only three types of people in this world, the ones that make things happend, the ones that watch things happend, and the ones that wonder what happend'. Who do you want to be?

WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENDS...
 
JRS -
I just gotta say you part of the problem. No gov't GRANTS rights. As a human being I have rights,and will fight to make that point clear). What part of 'shall not infringe' is not clear. 'Govt' is an agreement, not a person, and therefore has no rights.

The fact the US govt violates its own laws on a daily basis is reason to NEVER trust it. I have yet to see a 'problem' the US govt get involved with that actually got fixed at a reasonable cost - sorry, but most govt employees are the complete bottom of the barrel.
 
mj2evans, obviously you know more about the Constitution than does Justice Scalia. Do you know what a Federal Enclave is? Do you know that DC is located on a Federal Enclave? Have you researched your local Federal Archives dept. and read the actual Constitution as it was written? Are you aware the Second Amendment was ruled on, at three different times during the 19th century? Are you aware the Constitution is a Federal Document. Do you know that the reasons for owning a firearm during the time the Constitution was written was twofold? To put food on your table and protection. You see..... There were no local grocery stores from which to purchase your meat, so you shot and killed it for yourself. At the time, there was a population of roughly 3 Million people in our country. A very large portion were slaves. There was no established Army, Navy, Air Force or law enforcement agencies to protect us. We protected ourselves. The authors of our Constitution certainly could not foresee 1 Million plus known gang members in our country owning more than 2 million guns. They did of course realize our countries population would grow,360 Million) and put in place measures to modify our Constitution. It really doesn't matter how you and I define the Constitution. It is our personal interpretation. The true meaning is the legal meaning. If you would take the time to read the briefs from all 9 Justices, you will find that they all agreed on two points. State law does not apply on a Federal Enclave, and the States retain the right to make and enforce reasonable gun laws. I was reading my American Hunter magazine last night and found a very enlightening article about the NRA and how it chooses what to fight in the courts. In their own words, we take on fights we know we can win. Why do YOU think they didn't back up Heller? And yes, the Government grants rights. The Constitution is a Government document. Do yourself a big favor and spend a couple of weeks at your nearest Federal Archives. You'll learn things you were not taught in school.
 
Here is a direct quote from the March issue of the American Hunter by the NRA.

'Unless and until the Court holds otherwise, the Second Amendment does not restrict state or local laws. As direct precedent, HELLER could not be used to support the invalidation of any other gun law in America'.

With this quote, keep in mind that the District of Columbia is not subject to state and local law. It is a Federal Enclave.
 
I didn't have a choice as a baby but was unfortunately born in Washington D.C. :, Being it is a enclave Am I a legal U.S. citizen since it is the district of corruption? Thats why I moved as far as I possibly could and still be in the continental U.S.
 
JRS
You continue to the miss the point. I HAVE rights by being a human being. You and I *grant* the govt the ability to govern,its called a social contract - look it up). You seem all to willing to lie down with the sheep.

Quit waiting,wanting?) others to tell you what you can and cannot do. If you are not willing to stand up then at least shut up. This may be a harsh message but it really is that simple.
 
Mi2evans,
When was the last time YOU granted the government anything? I can't speak for you, but I live in the real world. In the real world, we have people who make the laws and we are expected to adhere to them. I stand up for my rights every day. On this particular point, I choose to fight with those who know where the battle has to take place. NOT by running the Second Amendment into the ground and trying to use it as leverage but by taking the millions of guns out of the hands of criminals that are causing this grief. It appears you understand the Constitution about as well as I thought I did before I actually sat down and read the original version in the local Federal Archives along with a large pile of case law. Try that sometime. You just might learn something. If it were as SIMPLE and clear cut as you think, the NRA would be fighting and winning every court battle at every front. Well........ that ain't happening.
 
As these bailouts and stimulus packages fail and matters worsen it will be interesting to see public reaction. Oklahoma has a bill up reasserting the 10th Amendment. California and Alaska have considered secession.Globalization, finacialisation, failed wars and falling prosperity are shaking everyone's confidence in the system. Probably too much to hope for a Consitutional Republic anytime soon with all those inalienable rights you mention.
 
You are getting very close Tikkatoy.
Our right to privacy has already been taken away. Our government will take away and modify what they want to, when they want to because our founding fathers gave them that power. Those that want to deny this, really don't understand the Constitution as it is written. The Second Amendment is not what the anti's want to take away. They want guns taken out of the hands of those who should not have them. That you fight at the local and state levels. Want to make a difference? Tell your representatives to enforce the laws we have and start using law enforcement to knock down the doors of the gang bangers and take their couple of million guns away. Since 9/11, the local gang task forces have shifted their focus elsewhere. Guess where crime has risen again?
 

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Forum statistics

Threads
166,259
Messages
2,214,855
Members
79,496
Latest member
Bie
Back
Top