Groundhog/Prairie dog rifle advice
- Thread starter CP312
- Start date
snert
Silver $$ Contributor
I am a long time eastern groundhog hunter. I shot 22-250 and swifts for years.
They are great for GH.
I went PD shooting once. SOOO glad I left the 22-250 at home. I took a 222, a 17HMr and a 22K Hornet. Shots to 350-375 yards. Plenty sporting and a ball of fun. When I was done (one day shooting) I still had three barrels that worked. If I took my 22-250 I KNOW I would have been mad cause I would have torched that barrel, and sure, I might have shot far, but so what? I shoot groundhogs far. When you see 8-12 PD on a mound, and several blow up before anyone runs off... well, 22-250 seems like too much a good thing, t least to me. Too much noise, too much heat, too much recoil, just too much. I loved the little rounds, but a 20 splits that difference so well. Distance and still not a barrel cooker.
If I were to do it again I would buy a 223 factory gun, a good scope and butt load of brass. I would shoot PDs till the barrel quit, then build a vartarg or 20 cal off of it. So I would buy a Tikka, a Savage or a Rem 700...whatever I liked best. All can be set up with after market good barrels in 20 cal. I would then have a PD gun which doubles as a decent GH gun. I would spend my extra cash on a long range 6MM for groundhogs!!!
That is my thinking at least.
They are great for GH.
I went PD shooting once. SOOO glad I left the 22-250 at home. I took a 222, a 17HMr and a 22K Hornet. Shots to 350-375 yards. Plenty sporting and a ball of fun. When I was done (one day shooting) I still had three barrels that worked. If I took my 22-250 I KNOW I would have been mad cause I would have torched that barrel, and sure, I might have shot far, but so what? I shoot groundhogs far. When you see 8-12 PD on a mound, and several blow up before anyone runs off... well, 22-250 seems like too much a good thing, t least to me. Too much noise, too much heat, too much recoil, just too much. I loved the little rounds, but a 20 splits that difference so well. Distance and still not a barrel cooker.
If I were to do it again I would buy a 223 factory gun, a good scope and butt load of brass. I would shoot PDs till the barrel quit, then build a vartarg or 20 cal off of it. So I would buy a Tikka, a Savage or a Rem 700...whatever I liked best. All can be set up with after market good barrels in 20 cal. I would then have a PD gun which doubles as a decent GH gun. I would spend my extra cash on a long range 6MM for groundhogs!!!
That is my thinking at least.
12 twist 22 BR with 52 Berger Varment
Three 8 twist dashers with the 105 A-Max
12 twist Dasher with the 65 V-Max
8 twist 6-47L With the 108 Berger
8 twist 6.5 WSSM with the 140 Berger and the 100 NBT
1/2 GAGGLE of 300 WBY's with 10 and 11 twists with the 210/215/230 Bergers
9.5 twist 338 EDGE with the 300 Berger Elite Hunters.
Limit to 1 gun...probably the Dasher with the 12 twist. Powder puff loads..65V-Max @ 3600. Doesn't get to hot, see my hits with a brake, and the dogs go POOF!!
Tod
Three 8 twist dashers with the 105 A-Max
12 twist Dasher with the 65 V-Max
8 twist 6-47L With the 108 Berger
8 twist 6.5 WSSM with the 140 Berger and the 100 NBT
1/2 GAGGLE of 300 WBY's with 10 and 11 twists with the 210/215/230 Bergers
9.5 twist 338 EDGE with the 300 Berger Elite Hunters.
Limit to 1 gun...probably the Dasher with the 12 twist. Powder puff loads..65V-Max @ 3600. Doesn't get to hot, see my hits with a brake, and the dogs go POOF!!
Tod
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A 22/250 can wear you down quickly if shooting PD's, too much recoil for you to spot your own hits and I have seen people flinching by the end of the day when using one. If you run 300 - 400 rounds a day through one the recoil can become uncomfortable.
223 Rem - it works well for everything from ground squirrels through coyotes. I have seen guys burn out a 22/250 barrel on a 3 or 4 day hunt. If you get into a good PD town the amount of shooting is unbelievable and it is easy to burn out a barrel unless you have enough self control to take 5 - 10 consecutive shots then wait a half-hour for your barrel to cool.
If you don't want to reload there is lots of quality 223 factory ammo available at really reasonable prices. If you do reload there are tons of good inexpensive components.
I load 40 gr Nosler BT's at 3700 and can spot my own hits/misses with no problem at all, even with my 223 sporter.
Rifle - my recommendation would be the Tikka, or Savage. The Tikka is smooth operating and has a great trigger I have had quite a few Tikka's and have never owned one that did not shoot 5 shot groups well under an inch.
Savages are a bit more hit and miss (not meant as a pun) in the accuracy dept. The strong suit to the Savage is that when you do burn out the barrel pre-fit barrels are relatively inexpensive and can be changed out easily. They have the Accu-Trigger which can be adjusted to an acceptable level but IMO it does not compare to the Tikka's trigger.
Remington - rough operating, coarse metal finish, accuracy is luck of the draw, some seem to shoot well while others are unacceptable for the accuracy needed for PD shooting. The trigger will need replacing since the current Remington triggers cannot be adjusted below about 3-1/2 lbs.
Browning - no experience whatever, but I have never seen one being used in a PD town which makes me a bit leery of them.
drover
Well, you know what they say about giving advice...wise men don’t need it and fools don’t heed it. I’ve used ‘em all on squeaks and chucks. Now only three make the trip, and they’re all .20 vt’s We average over 1000 shots, apiece, per day with medium loads and 34 gr. Dog towns. We get the same acrobatic squirrels as the .204 guys, with 10 gr. less powder. You think you can see your hits with .223 and.204? Try a med. wt. vt shooting suppressed. You can see the two hairs the bullet goes between...plus the birds can’t hear us. Enjoyment to the fullest.
As far as make of rifle, my pac-nor 25” barrels are laser beams on tikka and savage short actions. One morning I counted 5 misses for the first 200 shots...but 85-90% is normal for a day.
Great advice given here, the 22-250 is great for reaching out 350-500 yds. I have 2, a Sako 75 and the recoil prevents me from seeing my hits, usually.
My Rem 700 22-250 has a heavy barrel, heavy stock & a brake. The recoil is less, definitely more shootable and view thru the scope is much better at recoil. 1/14 twist will spin 50-55g bullets. works well.
I have a .204 Sako and it is also great for PD's, less recoil, less bbl heat. .204 is awesome until it's windy...
I don't have 1sthand experience with the rifles you listed...personally, I'd look for an older Rem 700 SS 22-250, with little use,
they pop up for sale sometimes. Put a brake on it & shoot PD's at a moderate pace...
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
The best double duty GH and PDog rig I ever tried was the 223A with the 40 grain bullet. It is certainly deadly on Ghogs as the 40 grain can get right a 3900 but not as deadly as the 22-50 with a 55 grain at 3950. Great on dog towns if you don't way past 300-400. Cheap to load too and you can shoot 223 too. My 14 twist Kreiger 40x will shoot int the 1s and never even get the barrel hot.
Under $1000 for the rifle plus additional cost. The new Remington triggers are garbage. They are sealed so it's looks impossible to adjust trigger pull. My 700 ADL came with about 6.5 lbs pull. I like the Rem 700 but if you want an accurate rifle I think you have to throw the barrel away and buy a new trigger. The tupper ware stock has very little contact with the receiver. With limited shooting my new 6BRX looks like it will shoot no worse than about .350 to .400" groups. Main use GH hunting.
4000 shots on my 6BR it still shoots small groups.
Rem 700 ADL Varmint Model $499 tupperware stock
Leopold scope $550
Krieger barrel 6BRX $750
Dies $92
200 pcs Lapua brass $180
Jewell trigger $249
scope rings $70
Scope base $20
Total> $2410
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Recoil? With a 22-250? seriously?
I watch my hits with big game guns, a 22-250 is a piece of cake!
Personally I think the best part is watching them explode. 223 does OK, but nothing like a 22-250, and 17 HMR? I find shooting prairie dogs with my 17 Ackley hornet to be a let down. Sure, they die, but they don't get free rides into space, or blown into pieces.
Just take a couple rifles along, and you don't have to shoot as fast as you can load the gun. They are not smart.
I watch my hits with big game guns, a 22-250 is a piece of cake!
Personally I think the best part is watching them explode. 223 does OK, but nothing like a 22-250, and 17 HMR? I find shooting prairie dogs with my 17 Ackley hornet to be a let down. Sure, they die, but they don't get free rides into space, or blown into pieces.
Just take a couple rifles along, and you don't have to shoot as fast as you can load the gun. They are not smart.
Absolutely enjoy reading all the opinions and advise on which caliber to use. I will enjoy this forum. My vote would be 22 magnum and 223.
It was fun trying a number of different cartridges on different small critters over many years, the 17's all the way up to 7mag.
The 7mag with 100's in a pre 64 was very entertaining!
The 6-284 with 75's, next so. It's hard to beat it for a 500-600Y varmint cartridge! But it's still a bit excessive and it feels like you are wasting ammo when shot closer than 300Y.
Now's a good time to interject on these heavy hitters. Within a couple hundred yards you really can't see the bullet impact but you can see what happens a few milliseconds afterwards, which was fine by me. Barrels get hot, there's some recoil, and the experience is somewhat overkill, but it's worth trying and saying to yourself, okay I tried it and it was fun.
The 36-42 ish grains of powder 22's and 6mm's have their niche too. Good all arounders??? I'd say for the most part, yes. Even still, I would rather use bullets with some decent BC and thwack and stretch distances with these. Yeah, shoot some critters up close just because, but don't go crazy and torch the barrel.
The little centerfires are fun, not much weight or BC but not much barrel heating going on either and you can see impacts most of the time. Longer barrel life is a attribute I'm fond of and the spat factor is enough.
I too ascribe to the less is more thing, like that of the 20VT or it's improved variants/mine - currently 5mmFBI. It's kinda funny going to all the extremes over the years then settling down to what is possibly the most balanced varmint cartridge around. It's hard not to like a 32 grainer at 3800 or a 40 with a .28 BC going a tad slower. On 17-18 grains of powder, it'll amaze.
For me it's 22rf and 22 mag for closer in, 5mmFBI to 350Y and the 6x47L with 105's at 3172 fps however far I want to try.
I think I'll try some light 30 cal varmint bullets behind 85 grains of powder, wouldn't that be fun!
rmr
Gold $$ Contributor
not much additional to say that hasn't already been posted.
less is more. 223 is very acceptable for PD's out to 350y. I love a 40g bullet (1/14twist) at max velocity. there is still barrel heating issues, but nothing a wet rag won't fix in a couple of minutes. If you decide to go with the -250 as a "one rifle" solution, plan on some way of managing barrel heat.
if you are going to use a 22-250, you will likely want a 2nd gun sooner or later for volume shooting. if you are hunting lower volume fields, (100-150 shots a day) its nearly ideal as a PD gun.
my personal favorite is the 6TCU (6mm-223 40degree). 65Vmax, H322. hits hard, better barrel life, fantastic accuracy.
Ideally, take 4 guns: 17 or 20Tac, 223/6TCU, big 22 (22-250/swift), big 6 (243/6SLR)
less is more. 223 is very acceptable for PD's out to 350y. I love a 40g bullet (1/14twist) at max velocity. there is still barrel heating issues, but nothing a wet rag won't fix in a couple of minutes. If you decide to go with the -250 as a "one rifle" solution, plan on some way of managing barrel heat.
if you are going to use a 22-250, you will likely want a 2nd gun sooner or later for volume shooting. if you are hunting lower volume fields, (100-150 shots a day) its nearly ideal as a PD gun.
my personal favorite is the 6TCU (6mm-223 40degree). 65Vmax, H322. hits hard, better barrel life, fantastic accuracy.
Ideally, take 4 guns: 17 or 20Tac, 223/6TCU, big 22 (22-250/swift), big 6 (243/6SLR)
TheOtherZilla
Pull my finger
One more tid bit.. Cabelas has the Savage 12 for cheap once in a while. I think I picked up a Savage 12 in 22-250 for less than $300. I then bought a good stock for it, and bedded it.. .. Shoots pretty much lights out..
This is a bit of a loaded question. I would need to know whether you were doing more ground hogging or more Prairie Dogging to offer advice on caliber. If I was doing more G-hogs, my advice would be the 22BR. It has near 22-250 performance in a more efficient case shape which also results in lower chamber flame temps that increases barrel life. Not P-dog town long life, but definitely nicer for G-hogs and occasional P-dogs. If I was doing more P-dogs, I would go 223. The longer barrel life is a huge deal for P-dogs. The brass is cheap to free and it burns small batches of powder with each trigger pull. The barrel diameter usually means that you won't have to clean as often as the 20 cal guys and you'll definitely clean less than the 17 cal guys before accuracy starts to go south. I really so like the Vartarg, and if you were going to be a primarily P-dogs and already had a 223, this would be my recommendation.
As far as platform goes, I think your best bet to stay under $1k and have something that you'll like shooting and is accurate, you might have to do some of the work yourself. I think your choices really come down to the Tikka or the Savage. I would avoid the Remington due to issues they have had with QC lately as well as that platform not adapting to the Savage/Remage barrel nut system as well. The Tikka is pretty good right out of the box and pre-fit barrels and triggers are on the market now. The action is relatively smooth and the Fins have a pride in craftsmanship that has been missing from most of the U.S. large scale companies at this price point for some time. The Savage is a great option out of the box and would work well for most people. Pre-fit barrels are in the $200 range and swapping barrels is easy (this goes for the Tikka and Remington as well) if you have basic mechanical skills. Triggers aren't all that easily swapped on the Savage, and people seem to like the factory trigger, and I guess it isn't much of a hinderance to accuracy. How you could put together a real shooter and stay at your price point would be to buy an action and pre-fit barrel. Put everything together yourself and find a stock you like in the BST. If you could swing $1.5k, your could build your own with an ARC Nucleus action and then you'd really have something. There's lot of good choices and I would just start looking for the good deals and let that dictate my direction.
As far as platform goes, I think your best bet to stay under $1k and have something that you'll like shooting and is accurate, you might have to do some of the work yourself. I think your choices really come down to the Tikka or the Savage. I would avoid the Remington due to issues they have had with QC lately as well as that platform not adapting to the Savage/Remage barrel nut system as well. The Tikka is pretty good right out of the box and pre-fit barrels and triggers are on the market now. The action is relatively smooth and the Fins have a pride in craftsmanship that has been missing from most of the U.S. large scale companies at this price point for some time. The Savage is a great option out of the box and would work well for most people. Pre-fit barrels are in the $200 range and swapping barrels is easy (this goes for the Tikka and Remington as well) if you have basic mechanical skills. Triggers aren't all that easily swapped on the Savage, and people seem to like the factory trigger, and I guess it isn't much of a hinderance to accuracy. How you could put together a real shooter and stay at your price point would be to buy an action and pre-fit barrel. Put everything together yourself and find a stock you like in the BST. If you could swing $1.5k, your could build your own with an ARC Nucleus action and then you'd really have something. There's lot of good choices and I would just start looking for the good deals and let that dictate my direction.
With good form while shooting off a bipod, I've watched the dogs explode time after time using rounds like the 243AI and 6.5 Creedmoor. Never shot pdogs off a bench, so can't comment on that method.
Neither round would be a good choice for the OP, simply saying that I wouldn't shun the 22-250 for that reason.
Barrel life? Yep. For having unmanageable recoil? No.
Neither round would be a good choice for the OP, simply saying that I wouldn't shun the 22-250 for that reason.
Barrel life? Yep. For having unmanageable recoil? No.
Hrsmn51
Gold $$ Contributor
I have 2 22-250s Tikka and Remington both are great for Pdogs. Short barrel 223AI was fun as well. The last day out was in October and we were shooting 250-625 yds. The 223 Ai was easy to shoot and cheap but I had brought my Tikka in 6XC comp rifle with 105 RDF's at 3080 fps and it was the star of the day. Anything under 500 yds was acrobatic, beyond they just tipped over. To the OP a Tikka Varmint will run you just under the $1000, has a good trigger and is sufficiently accurate add a suppressor and the ones in close don't hide for a bit. If I could only have one it would be the 22-250.
H
H
centershot
Silver $$ Contributor
I bought a Savage 12 FV from Cabella's, sold the .223 barrel for $100 and bought a Shilen .223 Ackley barrel. Put it in a Boyds stock and put a $325 Vortex 4.5x20 scope on it. Shoot 53 v-max out of it or 40 grain at just under 4,000fps. I would say it was very close to $1,000. Remember, all of your shots will not be at 600 yards. More speed = less barrel life. Get something that is a good average. If you want to go exotic, I believe that Lapua discontinued 6mm bench rest brass. Something else to consider down the road.
STS
Silver $$ Contributor
Pretty much right on the money. If you really want to get after the P-dogs you'll wish you had at least 2 rifles to let one cool while you try and burn the barrel off the other one. In a real good town 3 rifles won't be enough.
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