groundhog match info

[Gman]

What is the name of the gun/rifle club that shoots a Groundhog Match just east of Breezewood, PA?

Thanks,
Gman

 

[duanepa]

Are you thinking about Saint Thomas?

 

[Gman]

Yes, it is St. Thomas! Thank You Duane. Thanks for all the clubs mentioned guys, I bookmarked them.

 

[tripcrow]

Gman, Sent you the St. Thomas tentative 08 dates. Hope you can make it out. St. Thomas also shoots every Tuesday morning starting in April or there abouts. Tuesdays would be a good time to show up and get a feel for things as there are usually only a couple dozen people there and there's no time constraints on the Tuesday relays. Please don't feel you have to be of a certain quality shot to shoot with us. There's a lot of things to learn about the game that can only be learned in playing it. And honestly, nobody but maybe yourself is going to think any more or less of you because of how good or bad you shoot. It's just a great bunch of people out having fun doing what they love.

 

[Gman]

I recieved your email, thanks tripcrow!

 

[steveyrock]

Thanks for the schedule Bill,I like the new rule of each shooter has to spot their own shots.

 

[spike]

janer and I vote no on the proposed spotter rule change.

 

[FrankintheLaurelMts]

My buddy KEN and I also vote "NO"...the only thing that will occur is the "GUY" with the better scope will have an advantage over the guy with an EL CHEAPPO scope like my 36X Leupold...no comparison with the 42X Nightforces and the March super scopes as well as other $1500 ++ scopes... IF IT HAIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT...I thought these matches were designed to be a good time,,they are turning into work at this point !!! We're loosing sight of the forest with too many trees in the road...

 

[mattc]

yep the guys with the leupold will have a better scope then the guys with tasco and so on.

I would like to see one match that would be fair to everybody and not a equipment race but on the other hand would it not fell good to beat someone with better equipment then you?

mattc

 

[dreever]

At Shippensburg,www.shippensburgfishandgame.com) we allow spotters, that's part of the fun and camaraderie that goes along with having laid back shoots. I think what's more pressing this year is what to do with factory class since the factories like Savage etc. are putting out some pretty high tech rifles. I'm leaning toward the if the factory makes it, and you can buy commercial ammo for it, then you can shoot it in factory class, regardless if it's a Cooper, a 6BR, a Sako TRG whatever. It would make for a lot less headache's for the rules committee.

Danny

 

[tripcrow]

Frank the proposal wasn’t to ban spotting scopes, just to allow only the shooter to use a spotting scope himself to spot his own shots. Unfortunately the problem is that the present rules are broke. Especially for those who don’t come with a buddy that can see bullet holes &/or read conditions better than they can. There was trouble last year with people coaching shooters even though everyone is told coaching is not allowed. And who knows how many people had their friend that was spotting for them watching a wind tell and unknown to others was signaling when it was ok to fire. I don’t know how many of the other shooting disciplines allow coaching or another person to spot for you? Does Williamsport allow a shooter to have someone else tell him when to shot or spot for him? IBS? NBRSA? High Power? Palma? F-Class? I know High Power Silhouette does. But there you have a light rifle with a good amount of recoil that makes it pretty near impossible to see where your hits are on a target that isn’t there anymore. I think it was best summed up by the gent that proposed the rule change when he asked if this is an individual sport or a team sport.

I agree it’s more relaxed and fun for some shooters, especially those that come with a friend, to allow for a spotter person. And I’d think they still can. Just that they’d be DQed like some of the kids that are shooting 22cals in the Deer Hunter class. But I also see where the others that make up the big majority that voted are coming from. How’d you like to loose $600+ or a match or a season to somebody that beat you simply because they had somebody good on the line helping them? Or how’d you like to show up at a match by yourself and have to shoot alone while others were getting help from somebody else? When there isn’t much money or there are only a few shooters, people seem more willing to let an uneven playing field slide. Guess this stuff is part of the growing pains.


Although I did vote to not allow spotting help or coaching, I would have been fine without any rule changes anywhere. The only rule change proposal I made at St. Thomas or Mifflin meetings was at St. Thomas, and that was to allow pre-registration. Figuring it’d bring more shooters in because once you have somebody’s money they’d be more likely to show. Too show how you how confused I am I thought the proposal to ban spotting help on the firing line at St Thomas had already passed by something like a 20 to 4 or so margin. Then too I could of swore that Mifflin voted in the Fall to stop measuring group sizes all together because it was too much extra work for the scorers and was said to be just luck and now see group size is still in the rules. Like I told your brother, think I’m just going to stop going to these meetings and kinda wish I hadn’t of gone to any of them. Maybe it’ll be different in another 10 or so years when hopefully my wife and all the kids are grown up.

 

[steveyrock]

I see it as a shooter has to enter a rifle as an individual yet when the commence fire is called the bullet strikes are many times plotted by a team, the shooter and the spotter. We all have fun and that's what the kick is in these matches.I don't take winning all that serious to get in a pissing match about spotters calling wind conditions ect. Hard to please everyone in these kind of shoots with all the varying equipment that shows up.

 

[Skeet28]

I was present at that meeting and a copy of the new rules are
available and should be posted on our website shortly.
The question about spotting scopes and I quote
"Shooters are allowed to have someone spot their shots, but
NO Coaching allowed, except Juniors,under the age of 16.
The Problem last year was that there were just to many spotting scopes, and some shooters and their buddies were not only spotting but were coaching. This is an individual match and not a team match. I see someone has tried to blow the whole think out context. St Thomas runs a great match and most shooter seem to have a nice day competing and followed by good food and comradeship. Also they are adding two more bench, giving them 20 bench total. the new bench's will be under a canopy.

 

[FrankintheLaurelMts]

I agee...St Thomas run a great match..nice facility and nice people...BUT, if that rule says NO COACHING, it should be "enforced" by the range master..end of story...showing someone their shots on a target is not coaching in my opinion, someone telling someone how many clicks to add or subtract is, or calling the wind or mirage also is coaching..your right, with so many spotting scopes and limited space, things get a little tight for sure..maybe you could have all the spotting scopes put behind the area where the guns are sitting.. that would give alot more room for people to walk and any coaching would have to be screammed to be heard by the shooter, but a glance would show them their shot if they couldn't see it and that much of a gap would stop the coaching...I see that your new rule will permit someone watching and spotting..it adds to the fun..as far as your rules, they are fine..but it should be enforced to the letter..someone breaks it..DISQUALIFIED..one time and everyone will get the message...

I'm glad you set the record straight..thank you !!

 

[tripcrow]

Well, at this point I can only assume that I was hearing and voting on something besides what was really being said. I apologize for any confusion that I caused. It’s a good example of why I personally shouldn’t attend these meetings.
Bill

 

[yat3b35]

I'm in agreement with the no coaching rule as I've seen coaching at every shoot I've been to at St Thomas and it's always the same people and nothing is done about it. As far as spotters, that's ok too, tell where their shot went but don't tell how to get on target! My concern is the scoring system used in the custom class. I've read the "Lewis system of scoring" and that's great when it's followed.If you say you are gonna pay two groups and cut off point is 1/2 then make it 1/2 not 1/2 plus or minus 1 or 2 to get your buddy a payout. It has not affected me as far as payout but it has my friend just this past season. He was the half way person and the man next on the score list was paid first place money for the second group.The Lewis system states that the first half should consist of at least 3 more shooters than the second half, but half is fine if it's used each match.

 

[JoePellegrene]

yat3b35,

I understood they are going back to the old system. Money and stickers will be awarded for 1st, 2nd, 3rd places overall for deer hunter, factory, and custom class. There will be no more Lewis class pay outs.

 

[yat3b35]

Good idea, that I will go along with Thanks