Gopher anatomy picture anyone?

[Hugh204]

I'm working on a little project to compare performance of 22LR, 17HM2, 22WMR and 17HMR for gopher hunting this spring. I'm trying to find a picture of a gopher's anatomy to research the best point of impact and help document the experiment. I've seen lots of material on everything from coyote to moose but nothing for gophers. Anyone seen anything?

I'm referring to Richardson Ground Squirrels found in southern Saskatchewan/Alberta or in North Dakota.

 

[effendude]

I don't have anatomy pics of a gopher, but I have skinned some squirrels in my younger days and also trapped pocket and striped gophers. Their anatomy is similar to a human as best I can describe when skinned out. Long toros, front legs are smaller than the rear.

As for where to shoot them with rimfires, it depends on what you want. If the gopher or prairie dog is standing or the full length of the body is showing, I am for their soft midsection as the hydraulic shock causes dramatic effects with the proper bullet. Often, you will only see the head popped out of the hole, so I usually take whatever shot is presented. I always walk through a town afterwards for a twisted CSI visit to survey the damage. You won't see the carnage that the centerfires cause, but you will learn much. This strolls will help you determine the best performance and shot placement.

Have Fun!
Scott

 

[necchi]

Like any other mammal the vitals are contained in the Thoracic cavity and major motor neurons alone the spine.
Can't really see where anyone could actually define a shot to either lung or heart or head or spine as being MORE effective on a target that small considering a bb gun can actually do the job.
Maybe skeletal will help ya;
http://squirrelrefuge.org/squirrel_refuge_web_site_029.htm

 

[Hugh204]

Necchi - exactly the sort of thing I was looking for!

Here is what I'm working on....I'm convinced that 17HMR's don't penetrate well on gophers at short range if they hit the shoulder (they blow up too soon). I've had a number that have suffered alot of damnage but are still alive when I walk up to them.

I'd like to hunt them the way I do coyote where I'm always conscious of the shoulder and trying to penetrate the vitals without hitting the shoulder. I am going to try both 17HMR and the 17HM2 and see if I get better results when I place the shots above or below the shoulder.

Scott - I want to get the hydraulic shock you refer to.

Now I'd like to know where their lungs are in relation to their rib cage and shoulder.

 

[effendude]

Hugh,
I quite frankly have never had any impressive results with any rimfires on prarie dogs. The 17HMR was the best of the bunch, but most dogs crawled off. I know ground squirrels and gophers are smaller, but young prairie dogs are similar in size. From a results standpoint, the rodents died, but not in a very visually satifying manner.

The best advice I can give from an economical, efficient rodent killing standpoint is to step up to a .223 Rem with v-max type bullets. Hit the gophers pretty much anywhere and they will be laying in pieces when you take a walk. ;D
Scott

 

[bozo699]

Hugh,
A gopher is 5"-7" long, smaller then a pack rat and just a little bigger then a common mouse, I can't imagine a 17hmr not cutting one in half unless your trying to kill them at 200 yards or more, ground hogs and prairie dogs are much bigger but if you hit them in the head out to one hundred yards or so there toast, a .22 rimfire of course you would have to be much closer. The gophers that live where I live would die from a shoulder shot with any of the cartridges you mentioned. I would imagine there lungs and heart are in just about the same place as most animals are, a quartering shot behind the front shoulders should do the trick.
Wayne.

 

[260Ravage]

does this help?

 

[bozo699]

??? : ;D ;D (insert icon for holding sides while rolling on the ground)

 

[effendude]

Hugh,
The prairie dogs in North and South Dakota atrefor the most part about the size of a 20 ounce soda bottle. Occasionally, one will be larger than a litre bottle, but pretty rare. I time my trips to coincide with the pups coming out of the dens so I have more targets. The young pups are often the size of a striped gopher or a pocket gopher, I trapped 100's when I was a kid to earn money for more BBs for my Daisy.

My partners and I use .17HMR rifles around buildings, farm yards, and where ricochets are a concern. Hits to a skull will usually cause a small mess, but chest shots result in crawlers. Shots to the soft midsection will cause the most damage, but most crawl away just like a chest shot. I compare the .17 rimfires on a PD to a .30 or larger caliber on a deer, very few deer hit in the chest (heart/lungs) drop at the shot unless the spine is damaged. Sure, the shot kills, but the animal still moves after the shot. A good centerfire .22 caliber causes the animals to literally blow up. The rimfires simply don't.....
Scott

 

[bozo699]

Scott,
I 100% agree with you on the prairie dogs but even the juveniles are bigger then a gopher. A gopher to me isn't much bigger then a Mouse, I have gophers and voles in my alfalfa fields and the voles are smaller then the gophers but either one is pretty easy to kill with a shoulder shot at least the ones I have killed, they mostly only come out when there is plenty of ground cover or at night, so I am no authority on killing them for sure, I have killed thousands of GH's and I agree too many crawl off after a hit unless it's in the brain box or a centerfire is used.
Wayne.

 

[Hugh204]

Glad to know I'm not the only guy seeing poor terminal performance with rimfires. So now I have to ask - what is the best centerfire solution to my problem?

I've got a heavy barrel 204 and I do love it. Accurate as hell but for some reason I yearn for something a little lighter than 11lbs, and something that doesn't heat up as fast that I can use when I need 2 guns in a heavy volume situation.

22 Hornet at the low end seems too light for me - affected by the wind too much.

17 Fireball at the high end looks pretty sweet and would be all the juice I'd need to have some volume fun....maybe 10 grains of powder less than my 204.

But, the new 17 Hornady Hornet might be the ticket. Maybe 10 grains less than the 17 Fireball. Gives the least possible heat, wind effect at 100 and 200 yards not that much worse than the 204, should have pretty good terminal performance and accuracy.

Thoughts?

 

[bozo699]

Hugh,
Have you thought about a 17 or 20 bee, 218 bee necked down, much better case then a hornet, should be just about what your looking for.
Wayne.

 

[effendude]

.223 Rem. Cheap brass, easy to load, easy to shoot and kills PD's out to 600 yds when the wind doesn't blow? LOL The other beauty of the .223 is cheap ammo. In 2011, my schedule prevented me from reloading before my trips so I took advantage of some bargain ammo loaded with v-max bullets fron Midway. 1000 round for less than $400 with shipping was a good deal, I bought 2000 rounds. It shot as good as my prairie rifles did, 600+ rounds in a day w/o cleaning is the norm.

You can't buy the specialized rounds cheap, and when I miss, I don't get upset because it was a bargain. BTW, I have 22-250, 243, 6mmBR, 6.5X284 rifles ready for PD's also, but never take them out of the truck anymore.
Scott

 

[necchi]

.223 Rem. Cheap brass, easy to load, easy to shoot and kills PD's out to 600 yds when the wind doesn't blow?

+1