I am thinking of purchasing a Harrells powder measure and hear that Varget powder does not meter well with this device. Is there another GOLD-STANDARD powder for .308 win, that is proven in competition, that in not temperature sensitive, and that will meter well? One that a veteran shooter would, without hesitation, invest his time and effort into working up an accurate load with. Thanks a lot.
Good metering powder
- Thread starter oneonebravo
- Start date
Try Viht N140 with your measure, I know many HBR shooters that swear by it.
If you want to meter extruded powders with uniformity and without shearing grains, forget the Harrels. Go to the store,or online), and buy a Lee Perfect Powder Measure.
The Lee is cheap,about 1/10 the price of a high end measure), and at first glance, it's a joke,all plastic). And in several independent tests, it works as well or better than any powder measure under $500,i.e., throws to within 0.2 grains). For most purposes, 0.2 grains isn't going to make that great of a difference.,One account says that at near-max loadings, a 1 grain charge weight variation in a .308 case is worth about 60 FPS.)
If that 0.2 grain variation really matters to you, then start weighing each charge. If you go down this road, you'd better have a balance that can read to 0.05 grains or better. Why? If your balance's uncertainty is +/- 0.1 grains,i.e., most balances sold for reloading), you inherently have up to a 0.2 grain spread. Balances reading to 0.05 grains or better usually aren't cheap - they start around $200, and go up from there.
There is a down side to a Lee Perfect Powder Measure - ball powder flows through one about like $*it through a goose. Due to this behavior, the Lee doesn't meter ball powders very uniformly. Then again, other measures will generally meter ball powders pretty well.
Midway USA has the Lee Perfect Powder Measure on their site at http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=540522
The Lee is cheap,about 1/10 the price of a high end measure), and at first glance, it's a joke,all plastic). And in several independent tests, it works as well or better than any powder measure under $500,i.e., throws to within 0.2 grains). For most purposes, 0.2 grains isn't going to make that great of a difference.,One account says that at near-max loadings, a 1 grain charge weight variation in a .308 case is worth about 60 FPS.)
If that 0.2 grain variation really matters to you, then start weighing each charge. If you go down this road, you'd better have a balance that can read to 0.05 grains or better. Why? If your balance's uncertainty is +/- 0.1 grains,i.e., most balances sold for reloading), you inherently have up to a 0.2 grain spread. Balances reading to 0.05 grains or better usually aren't cheap - they start around $200, and go up from there.
There is a down side to a Lee Perfect Powder Measure - ball powder flows through one about like $*it through a goose. Due to this behavior, the Lee doesn't meter ball powders very uniformly. Then again, other measures will generally meter ball powders pretty well.
Midway USA has the Lee Perfect Powder Measure on their site at http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=540522
Thanks guys. I currently have an Acculab Vic 123 and am happy with it. I am also happy with Varget. I am just looking to speed up the process a bit at the range,and home). I read alot and hear the Harrells, Neil Jones, and the Quick measure are the best. However they are also reviewed by people more experienced than me to be inconsistent when metering extruded powders. On the other hand, I have also read this can be overcome with proper technique. If technique is all that stands in the way of me and handloading nirvana then I'll take it. I just want to buy the right thing the first time damn the money. I just can't aesthetically justify a Lee product sitting next to all of my beautiful handloading equipment even though I know it to be a sleeper piece of kit. I guess my question is can technique make the Harrells work as advertised or is it hopeless for extruded powders? Thanks again for any further replies.
Donovan,
I didn't do the test. Someone else did, and wrote up an article in "Precision Shooting". I think the last such article was printed within the last 18 months.
FWIW, I have more than a few friends shooting highpower that load using this powder measure, and they're happy with it. They're good shooters, so that says quite a bit.
At $20, such a measure is cheap enough to be worth experimenting with. If it doesn't meet your standards, you're only out $20. Odds are, you won't even be out that much, since you can probably find a buyer for it.
I didn't do the test. Someone else did, and wrote up an article in "Precision Shooting". I think the last such article was printed within the last 18 months.
FWIW, I have more than a few friends shooting highpower that load using this powder measure, and they're happy with it. They're good shooters, so that says quite a bit.
At $20, such a measure is cheap enough to be worth experimenting with. If it doesn't meet your standards, you're only out $20. Odds are, you won't even be out that much, since you can probably find a buyer for it.
Donovan
I agree with your first post. Ive been running the Lyman 1200 DPS and really love that thing. I see Mid south shooters supply has them for i believe $225. I was thinking of getting another one for back up.
I Have had a Harrel for about 10 years now. I started reloading for the service rifle using it with Varget when I first got it. It metered OK but not great. The short Range ammo was fine but the long Line stuff wasn't that good. Then I purchased the DPS and never looked back. My expensive Harrel just sits there and is dedicated to Prairie Dog loads with 2520. The RCB's and Lynman are not that fast but are very accurate compared to trickling charges I think it really shines. I have to say that I double check my powder charges EVERY time. The powder comes out of the DPS and onto the Dillion Determinator for double checking. My ammo is all within .1 from one to the next.
I had a chance to check my Dillion against a $5000 Lab scale for a whole week of reloading and I have to say that I'm very happy with the results.
I guess I don't think there is anything out there that would keep the consistency that I require with the speed of a powder thrower, right now anyway.
I have a bench rest friend who uses the Lee and he swears by the dern thing. But then again he is still trickling and reweighing his loads too.
For the price of the Lee I may get one just to check it out, Ive spent money on alot worse things then that.
Again I vote for the Lyman 1200 DPS. Or the RCBS Chargmaster.
and a good scale.
.2 on each side of my targeted load would be too much for me. I have a hard enough time hitting the X ring with out half a grain difference between one case to the next.
RussT
I agree with your first post. Ive been running the Lyman 1200 DPS and really love that thing. I see Mid south shooters supply has them for i believe $225. I was thinking of getting another one for back up.
I Have had a Harrel for about 10 years now. I started reloading for the service rifle using it with Varget when I first got it. It metered OK but not great. The short Range ammo was fine but the long Line stuff wasn't that good. Then I purchased the DPS and never looked back. My expensive Harrel just sits there and is dedicated to Prairie Dog loads with 2520. The RCB's and Lynman are not that fast but are very accurate compared to trickling charges I think it really shines. I have to say that I double check my powder charges EVERY time. The powder comes out of the DPS and onto the Dillion Determinator for double checking. My ammo is all within .1 from one to the next.
I had a chance to check my Dillion against a $5000 Lab scale for a whole week of reloading and I have to say that I'm very happy with the results.
I guess I don't think there is anything out there that would keep the consistency that I require with the speed of a powder thrower, right now anyway.
I have a bench rest friend who uses the Lee and he swears by the dern thing. But then again he is still trickling and reweighing his loads too.
For the price of the Lee I may get one just to check it out, Ive spent money on alot worse things then that.
Again I vote for the Lyman 1200 DPS. Or the RCBS Chargmaster.
and a good scale.
.2 on each side of my targeted load would be too much for me. I have a hard enough time hitting the X ring with out half a grain difference between one case to the next.
RussT
Donovan,
I bought a Lee and used it after reading Asa's posts on it.,BTW, I haven't seen any powder measure comparisons since I started getting PS--a couple three years now). It really does work. Try one. It's only a 20-some dollar adventure and it is almost winter
You have to keep the Quick Measure and the Lee in a separate category from the Harrell's, Jones, Dodd, etc. measures 'cause they've added features specifically for dealing with the longer stick powders.
robert
I bought a Lee and used it after reading Asa's posts on it.,BTW, I haven't seen any powder measure comparisons since I started getting PS--a couple three years now). It really does work. Try one. It's only a 20-some dollar adventure and it is almost winter
You have to keep the Quick Measure and the Lee in a separate category from the Harrell's, Jones, Dodd, etc. measures 'cause they've added features specifically for dealing with the longer stick powders.
robert
Does the Quick-measure offer any advantage over the Lee?
You guys are talking me into buying a Lee. PLEASE tell me the Quick-measure is better. PLEASE!!!!!!! I can't believe I am considering buying a Lee. Do any of you know a link to that article that evaluates the Lee? I have been re-reading Zediker and he even says it's the best for extruded powders. I am going to have a hard time trusting a lee and I don't know for the life of me why.
You guys are talking me into buying a Lee. PLEASE tell me the Quick-measure is better. PLEASE!!!!!!! I can't believe I am considering buying a Lee. Do any of you know a link to that article that evaluates the Lee? I have been re-reading Zediker and he even says it's the best for extruded powders. I am going to have a hard time trusting a lee and I don't know for the life of me why.
memilanuk
Gold $$ Contributor
There was an exhaustive test of various powder measures about 8 or 9 years ago in Precision Shooting. I have a copy of the article around here somewhere. To make a long story short, the author spent a long winter testing about every kind of powder measure he could get his hands on at the time... from a Lee PPM to a RCBS Uniflow to a Redding #2 to Harrells to Neil Jones to B&M to old Lyman, etc. He tried them with light knocking, hard knocking, no knocking, and various consistencies of powders. End results: They were all about the same, from high to low. The high end measures were usually a little more consistent, but still not really +/- 1/10th - not every time, not if you measured enough throws.
I keep wanting to throw my charges, because I really, really hate weighing charges. I have a VIC123 scale and it is very accurate... when it behaves. Even then, its' still slow and tedious going. Throwing a few tenths light into the pan and putting it on the Chargesmaster 1500 to top it off seems to be a reasonable compromise between speed and consistency for my '600yd and in' loads with stuff like Varget, RE-15, etc.
YMMV,
Monte
I keep wanting to throw my charges, because I really, really hate weighing charges. I have a VIC123 scale and it is very accurate... when it behaves. Even then, its' still slow and tedious going. Throwing a few tenths light into the pan and putting it on the Chargesmaster 1500 to top it off seems to be a reasonable compromise between speed and consistency for my '600yd and in' loads with stuff like Varget, RE-15, etc.
YMMV,
Monte
oneonebravo said:
Wasn't it Rustystud that had some great write-ups on the Quick Measure here?
Yeah, here's the one he started:
Quick Measure
And here's one where he talked about his results after he fiddled with his measure a bit:
Quick Measure Tested
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