Just to let everyone here know, as far as cleaning the carbon from the back of intake valves and the top of pistons, none of these products, sea foam, BG, MOC, JB and the like aren't worth Ant piss. I have used these products, often two treatments in a row, then the next morning pulled the intake manifolds, inspected the results, found zero improvement, then proceeded to media blast the carbon from the valves. Unfortunately the auto industry has gone wallet flush crazy, its the new future of profit. Original Top Engine Cleaner worked well for two things, cleaning carbon from the tops of pistons and, diluted with fuel, it cleaned carbon from fuel injectors. Intake valve carboning is typically an issue with direct injected engines. Sorry, but that the deal with these products. I'm not saying it wont work on rifle barrels, I just need to see it happen.
GM top engine cleaner
- Thread starter waterdog
- Start date
Someoldguy
Thank you for your reply. I've never seen a product that will dissolve/remove hard carbon. Piston tops and valves are a case in point. My thinking is if it won't work on carbon on an internal combustion engine, it won't work in a rifle barrel, either.
I am curious though. How did you test JB bore paste on pistons/valves?
Actually there is one product that cleans ALL the carbon from the valves and pistons, and cleans to a spotless, new metal like shine. It costs almost nothing, and is not harmful to people, pets or plants.
Water. Plain ol' every day, comes out of the faucet water.
If you've ever pulled a cylinder head because of leaking head gasket you'd know what I mean. The cylinders that were leaking are easy to spot cause they're spotlessly clean. I used water injection on my Turbo charged engine to prevent detonation. Pulled a head after stretching a head bolt and.... no carbon anywhere.
I imagine steam at about 80 to 100 psi and a 36 inch wand with nozzle on the end would make short work of carbon, or copper for that matter.
Water. Plain ol' every day, comes out of the faucet water.
If you've ever pulled a cylinder head because of leaking head gasket you'd know what I mean. The cylinders that were leaking are easy to spot cause they're spotlessly clean. I used water injection on my Turbo charged engine to prevent detonation. Pulled a head after stretching a head bolt and.... no carbon anywhere.
I imagine steam at about 80 to 100 psi and a 36 inch wand with nozzle on the end would make short work of carbon, or copper for that matter.
Someoldguy
Ah. My mistake. Thank you.
farmerjohn
Gold $$ Contributor
The man does have a point, we got a good steam cleaner here at the farm. Just trying to figure out how to use it on the rifle.....
Someoldguy
I understand your point, as I've seen the same. I've no idea how the same principle could ever be applied to barrels, though.
Someoldguy
I believe I'm going to try some of the products recommended for 2-stroke engines. I'm betting if anything works, it will be found in that application.
I've seen it done, used to clean muskets after a days shooting on a movie set, a 100 or more at a time. Of course, they were 75 cal and the wand was about 3/8 inch with portable steam generator. Worked great on black powder residue, but probably not high enough pressure to remove hard carbon, it was nothing more than a typical steam cleaner set up. But the principal is the same.
farmerjohn
Gold $$ Contributor
You know, I wonder if it's the water or the antifreeze? If you have a head gasket leaking or a cracked head and can't shut down till the jobs over caterpillar always tells you to drain the water system and get all the antifreeze out and replace with pure water so it won't etch the main and rod journals on the crank shaft. Long as you keep good oil in it and change it ever few days it won't hurt the bearings or the journals. But if the antifreeze is in the water it will etch the crank in 48 hrs...
Someoldguy
Mmmmmmmm . . .
Locomotives use Borate Nitride as an anti-corrosive agent and it will eat out bearings as well if the oil isn't changed.
This is done because ethylene glycol is too expensive when dealing with a cooling system of 250 gallon capacity, let alone the potential toxicity. Is it the Borate or the water? I donno.
For those of you fighting with "hard carbon" you can save yourself a lot of work by not letting it get hard in the first place. Run a few patches of your favorite potion down the bore while the barrel is still warm to hot. If you put off cleaning until getting home from a match, your dog tired, unload your gear, then the wife wants to go out to eat..... well you get my drift.
Personally I use C4 after using Butch's for years. C4 is so much better, it's not even a fair comparison.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd
Personally I use C4 after using Butch's for years. C4 is so much better, it's not even a fair comparison.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd
Several times this year we have discussed this, and in those times some fellas have suggested CLR. I read the manufacturers paperwork on specifics about it then tested it. First on a stainless steel muzzle brake, hard carbon. It dissolved the carbon easily with no effect to the stainless. I then used in on my .243 stainless steel barrel that had carbon build up, purposely done for this reason. It worked well, no harm to stainless. I still have some GM TEC, just looking for something to take its place. Lloyd is right about going after it with a fairly warm barrel before you leave the range. Buy the way water is the neutralizer to the CLR.
No doubt clr works, I use it to clean suppressors, brakes, sig mpx barrels and gas systems, even S&W stainless revolvers, just deep 6 them in a sonic cleaner. I've even thrown the heat to a few things in the tank and it ate cerakote, and hard adonizing off the finish< one mpx barrel is butt ugly and one can too, have a cover for it though.
What I'm saying is I'm prone to doing dumbass things to nice products to make cleaning easier. But I would have a hard time introducing a water based product in a rifle barrel that is shooting 4" at 1000 yards, maybe it is just me.
It is also the emulsifier for GM TEC, turns it white and washes it away.
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
I had a stash of about 14 bottles of the old steel can TEC. I know everyone talks about how great it was, I think its only because you can't get it. I trashed it all, I actually prefer tm solution, bore tech, or pro shot over TEC for cleaning. TEC worked great to clean a piston top but thats not the same stuff in the bottom of the gooves of your barrel and I still have not found a chemical that will remove that.
If you REALLY want some TEC stop by the local chevy dealer and offer a mechanic $20 if he can find an old bottle around the shop. A lot of dealers have lots of old stuff laying around if they have been in biz for a while.
If you REALLY want some TEC stop by the local chevy dealer and offer a mechanic $20 if he can find an old bottle around the shop. A lot of dealers have lots of old stuff laying around if they have been in biz for a while.
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