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gluing planks together to make a laminate.

TaperPin said:
When gluing up important pieces I try to use boards that have acclimated to the current weather conditions, which only takes a few minutes a day. On each board simply measure with a dial caliper at both ends and about every 2’ and write the measurement on the board. I write on the spot of the original measurement so additional measurements can be made on the same place. The ends of the board shed or absorb moisture 10x as quickly as the middle and measurements taken just a few days apart will show this. Most wood at retailers is poorly dried and has extra moisture - I would predict the ends will be shrinking a measurable amount every day during the dry months, or growing if during the wet months in states with big humidity swings. The ends will eventually stop moving, but the middle will take many more days or weeks.

During the kiln drying process if temperatures and humidity aren’t kept within proper ranges, many different internal stresses can build up that will stay with the board - often generically referred to as case hardening. If a board has a lot of extra movement during a cut, like dramatically pinching the blade or spreading out, it’s best used for small or thin areas, or cut up and used in the smoker.

USDA has researched all aspects of kiln drying to the point it’s very well understood. If anyone is curious about it, there’s a great free publication online.
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That publication is really a good resource for understanding wood better.
Goes to prove that you can't just pigeonhole materials as "kiln-dried/bad" or "air-dried/good".
I have had some rather wild reaction wood out of pieces that I cut and seasoned myself.
Another great read for wood geeks is Bruce Hoadley's "Understanding Wood".
 
TaperPin said:
I would strongly advise against carpenter glue (Titebond, PVA of all kinds) - as a professional woodworker I’ve seen dramatic failures of it at only slightly elevated temperatures. In 100 degree weather, leaving a cabinet assembled with pva glue out in direct sunlight further raising the wood temp is asking for a quick self disassembly. I personally watched a new piece of furniture that took 160 hours of work, just fall apart at the joints while being carried after being left outside in the sun on a 105 degree day.

This is an easy idea to prove for yourself. Take a couple of 2’ boards and run a bead of glue across one far end covering 4-6” and clamp until dry. Set it in your car in the middle of summer for an hour and the roughly 140 degrees plus added heat of direct sun will allow the boards to be easily pulled apart by hand.
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It can actually get that hot?o_O
Up here we generally have more cold than heat to deal with. Six months straight with snow on the ground.
Then mosquitoes....
 
West Systems as mentioned above. Use carbon fiber cloth between each lamination. I also agree on air dried wood. Remember there is a difference between dry and cure. I buy my walnut from Roger Vardy in Australia. If you can find somebody to vacuum bag it instead of clamps, you would be better off.
 
Jackie,
Id give these guys a call. This stuff is what we make most of our stocks out of.
www.cwp-usa.com

SpectraPly Panels

SpectraPly is a dyed birch laminate. Layered into a variety of color patterns and bonded together. SpectraPly is made in the USA and used by woodturners worldwide for many things like pepper mills, bottle stoppers, and etc!
www.cwp-usa.com www.cwp-usa.com
 
Hey Jackie! I checked my pile of wood. I have oak and walnut that’s been air dryed for 50 years on the east coast, then 4 years in Texas. I have plenty of epoxy to glue it up with if you’re gonna shoot it in Hell’s Kitchen and don’t want regular wood glue. Let me know.
Josh
PS: I’ll need a drawing or plan.
 
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More laminations can create some additional stability, up to a point. I’m experimenting with building a couple stocks. I’ve been a woodworker for a very long time and figured I’d give it a shot. The top blank (the picture at the bottom) has carbon fiber in between the layers and I used West Systems epoxy. It is what you want to use if you are laying up fabric in the lamination. You don’t want to starve the joint so just enough pressure to make full contact with the laminations and fabric, leaving ample epoxy in the joint. The bottom blank is just wood, so I used a Tight Bond III. I’ve used this for years and never had a failure. With it you want to squeeze the daylight out of the joint so more clamps and a lot of pressure. True oil will work, I’ve used it on projects and of course lacquer as well. My latest experiment I’m using a hard wax product called Rubio Monocoat with a ceramic hard coat over it. So far I like it but am still finishing the stock. BZ’s can do a fantastic high gloss automotive finish as well. So you have a lot of choices, good luck I am looking forward to seeing your progress. These blanks are eastern maple and black walnut.IMG_4772.jpegIMG_4256.jpeg70276360596__5528206A-DC56-42D4-A9FD-E6010FF32533.jpeg be interested in seeing your progress.
IMG_3941.jpegIMG_4730.jpeg
 
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Epoxy can be a little tricky for a first timer. Too much clamping pressure starves the joint. Too little can leave a gap. That’s why I use and suggest the Titebond. Clamp the Crap out of it and you have a good laminate joint.
I put a glued up piece in an oven at 225 for an hour and a half. I managed to pull it apart…..with a crow bar. I’m going to test epoxy next but I think I know what’s going to happen. When guys are pulling glued in actions apart, they apply heat to soften the epoxy.
I’d say the take away and best advice is don’t leave your gun out in extreme heat. You may have problems. Treat your gun like a faithful pet and you’ll be fine.
 
I have used West System for years on wooden boats. It's my go-to on any wood or fiber. Friends from a past life used it on their ice boats.
It's a 5:1 mix ratio. I use a scale but still buy their "calibrated" hand pumps.
On occasion I've used the alumina or glass bead fillers, but never in laminate or fiber lay-ups.
You do not want to mix a big pot of it, like 1/4 of a big Folgers can - it'll cook itself.
 
joshb said:
Epoxy can be a little tricky for a first timer. Too much clamping pressure starves the joint. Too little can leave a gap. That’s why I use and suggest the Titebond. Clamp the Crap out of it and you have a good laminate joint.
I put a glued up piece in an oven at 225 for an hour and a half. I managed to pull it apart…..with a crow bar. I’m going to test epoxy next but I think I know what’s going to happen. When guys are pulling glued in actions apart, they apply heat to soften the epoxy.
I’d say the take away and best advice is don’t leave your gun out in extreme heat. You may have problems. Treat your gun like a faithful pet and you’ll be fine.
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Hi @joshb , your post was my inspiration for giving this a shot. Thanks for all the time you have put into bringing the rest of us along on a stock building journey. Your stocks are beautifully shaped. I agree on the expoy being a bit tricker. I was just referring to butchlambert’s suggestion on laying up carbon fiber in the blank. I imagine it would add stiffness to the stock and it adds to the blank visually. I used it in my first prototype. It’s kind of hard on the tooling and I think the all wood laminate should be plenty stiff so the other couple I’m working on are just wood. The proof will be is if they shoot:). I hope to find out over the winter. Given Jackie’s skills I’m sure he could do a quick mock up with a couple of off cuts and have it down. I’m looking forward to seeing the turquoise stock finished!
 
Well…..I’m happy to have sparked your project. My endeavor was initiated by the high costs of a good stock and the absence of a design I liked. Bravo for taking up the torch. It looks like you’ve got it nailed! Nice work!
I thought about using carbon fiber. Still might.
 
DiffEQ said:
I have used West System for years on wooden boats. It's my go-to on any wood or fiber. Friends from a past life used it on their ice boats.
It's a 5:1 mix ratio. I use a scale but still buy their "calibrated" hand pumps.
On occasion I've used the alumina or glass bead fillers, but never in laminate or fiber lay-ups.
You do not want to mix a big pot of it, like 1/4 of a big Folgers can - it'll cook itself.
Click to expand...
Ha! Yup! Get everything ready and get it on the wood FAST! Even small batches will cook off if left too long in the mixing container!
 
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