Global Benchrest Association? - Harry Jones 1000yd Memorial Range

[dmoran]

All the long range rules are all so similar I wish we could all be under the same body. Regardless of the body. I just see it as the bigger the organization, the bigger the prize for the winners and record holders which will help grow the sport. F-class is a very good example. If you broke F-class up into 5 different sanctioning bodies you would see far less enthusiasm surrounding that game.

So far as the club gun goes, our club doesnt charge but its made very clear to the new shooter the rules regarding their choice to become an IBS member or not.

Whats the difference: 3 separate sanctioning bodies, ... or 1 sanctioning running 3 separate formats?
I'm all for Williamsport's precedence to rules, and the inability to change rules and formats !.!.!

 

[Raythemanroe]

I feel that we should all sit down and follow a common format. Be hard to get Williamsport to go to five for LG and the same for IBS to go ten.. I honestly think that the way LG's are tracking and with the smaller calibers being used that shooting 10 isn't a big deal. I rather like shooting 10..

I feel the World Open should honor any sanctioned 1k Benchrest organization. IBS should as well, NBRSA and so on. IBS and Williamsport recognize each memberships for Nationals/World Open, wouldn't take much for the others to get on board.. This helps with the event turnout and it makes for a true top level match. Maybe club matches you should need to join.

Standardized rules would be nice, I know many that are members of both..

GBA, if you want a good turnout for a big match I recommend recognizing the others.. otherwise you are just having s club championship or state Championship..

Those of you who questions honoring non members, how about other affiliated memberships pay $5 more per relay for single matches and $15 for Nationals/Open? You get your money either way and everyone is happy.. They break a record, they payed like anyone else to shoot under the same rules..

Ray

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Whats the difference: 3 separate sanctioning bodies, ... or 1 sanctioning shooting 3 separate formats?

I have been against that from the start, same with 2nd and 3rd place. If Im ever in a position to try and make changes, I will. This forum is not that position.

 

[shoot4fun]

If your range decides to become a Global affiliate is it OK to be an IBS Club or an NBRSA Long Range Club (or all three) during the same period? In other words, If Harry Jones shoots Global would it not be an asset for them to shoot IBS and/or IBS LR matches as well? That would allow the use of the facility (which ranges of 1,000 yards are a premium) to be utilized as a venue for as many matches and organizations as possible.
I would have no problem being a member of NBRSA, IBS, Global and Williamsport in order to participate without the travel demands if I lived near said range. It would appear to be a win for all organizations and for the sport as well.
I would hope the start up of this Global BR org is NOT only to give the finger to IBS or try to destroy any other established org or group of shooters.
After all, we do have enough enemies on the outside to have them tear us apart from the inside (don't we?).

 

[dmoran]

I have been against that from the start, same with 2nd and 3rd place. If Im ever in a position to try and make changes, I will. This forum is not that position.

Like I stated above; I'm all for Williamsport's precedence to rules, and the inability to change rules and formats !.!.!
Likely why they've been here +50-years, and why there's chaos else where.

 

[Savgeguy71]

I'm sort of frustrated myself with the trying to figure out all rules etc. I agree new shooters need introduced to the sport and have been to clubs where the fellowship and great sportsmanship were the only priorities , and of course having fun. But I've also experienced other types that winning wasn't enough , they had to have a quart of blood too ! Just my .02 , uniformity in rules is an interesting and reasonable approach but it sort of seems that some places want the " their sandbox , their rules " mentality which can be ok also but not recognizing "records" seems quite ridiculous in some respects and does bring the question of ...."is this new association created only to fit the needs of some who didn't get their way in another association"? Not judging , or stereotyping but in recent years I've personally witnessed some behavior that was less than sportsman like and certainly wouldn't be what you would want people new to the sport to witness. Just being honest. I get that all disciplines of shooting have the egocentric types and thats fine too within sportsman like behavior. Everyone wants the beautiful rifle with the smallest group too but its truly , at least in my own head and beliefs , to be about friendship , fellowship , fun and a love of the sport. Appreciate different opinions but respect the "common rules and guidelines". Myself , if I guy shoots a group at 600 or 1000 yards that is "record" material , why take away from someone's achievement if done within the guidelines ? I'm thrilled when I see people do exceptionally well and I'm truly saddened when I see the "quart of blood" types behave poorly around new shooters. Its all supposed to be safe , enjoyable fun within safety guidelines for enjoyment and love of sport. I participated in a 1000 yard silhouette match a few years ago where I guy was shooting a bench rest match , with a bolt action pistol. The guy was so excited to hit targets with it you would have thought he broke the world record and I was thrilled for him ! ! I'm not getting into the politics of it all , I'd just love to see more of the fun , fellowship and love of the sport types who enjoy seeing people do well. Its not supposed to be about picking someone apart or a "quart of blood" ! I'll be curious to see how this all develops. Hopefully in a positive direction..........good luck to all !

 

[david kieffer]

I'm sort of frustrated myself with the trying to figure out all rules etc. I agree new shooters need introduced to the sport and have been to clubs where the fellowship and great sportsmanship were the only priorities , and of course having fun. But I've also experienced other types that winning wasn't enough , they had to have a quart of blood too ! Just my .02 , uniformity in rules is an interesting and reasonable approach but it sort of seems that some places want the " their sandbox , their rules " mentality which can be ok also but not recognizing "records" seems quite ridiculous in some respects and does bring the question of ...."is this new association created only to fit the needs of some who didn't get their way in another association"? Not judging , or stereotyping but in recent years I've personally witnessed some behavior that was less than sportsman like and certainly wouldn't be what you would want people new to the sport to witness. Just being honest. I get that all disciplines of shooting have the egocentric types and thats fine too within sportsman like behavior. Everyone wants the beautiful rifle with the smallest group too but its truly , at least in my own head and beliefs , to be about friendship , fellowship , fun and a love of the sport. Appreciate different opinions but respect the "common rules and guidelines". Myself , if I guy shoots a group at 600 or 1000 yards that is "record" material , why take away from someone's achievement if done within the guidelines ? I'm thrilled when I see people do exceptionally well and I'm truly saddened when I see the "quart of blood" types behave poorly around new shooters. Its all supposed to be safe , enjoyable fun within safety guidelines for enjoyment and love of sport. I participated in a 1000 yard silhouette match a few years ago where I guy was shooting a bench rest match , with a bolt action pistol. The guy was so excited to hit targets with it you would have thought he broke the world record and I was thrilled for him ! ! I'm not getting into the politics of it all , I'd just love to see more of the fun , fellowship and love of the sport types who enjoy seeing people do well. Its not supposed to be about picking someone apart or a "quart of blood" ! I'll be curious to see how this all develops. Hopefully in a positive direction..........good luck to all !

very well written, thank you. dave

 

[Savgeguy71]

very well written, thank you. dave

Thanks david kieffer. Just my .02. Truly love the shooting sports. Those I have participated in and those I don't. Hope all works out and as shooting enthusiasts we remember safety , love for sport and fellowship and don't turn ourselves inside out over titles and technical debate.

 

[SAP]

Yes. And light gun shooters there enjoy shooting 10 shot groups.

Why would Willimasport change anything, there the most successful range there is (+50-years of proof), and they don't change rules, or shoot 3 separate non-uniform formats.

Yes

 

[johara1]

Like I stated above; I'm all for Williamsport's precedence to rules, and there inability to change rules and formats !.!.!
Likely why they've been here +50-years, and why there's chaos else where.

Donavan, You called it, why the chaos? It is the shooter of the year and more points. Why would a new club go under because the raised the numbers of shooters to get points. Why vote on something and it passed by a 2/3 margin, be negated by the E board and LR committee? Kind of looks like it got out of hand..... Williamsport is simple and to the point, I hope it never changes...... jim

 

[bpmoss1]

Donavan, You called it, why the chaos? It is the shooter of the year more points. Why would a new club go under because the raised the numbers of shooters to get points. Why vote on something and it passed by a 2/3 margin, be negated by the E board and LR committee? Kind of looks like it got out of hand..... Williamsport is simple and to the point, I hope it never changes...... jim

Not to mention it's where it all started.

 

[BountyHunter]

I have been against that from the start, same with 2nd and 3rd place. If Im ever in a position to try and make changes, I will. This forum is not that position.

You and the other members are in a position to make changes IF you want to bad enough. That was one club that pushed that and got it in before your time.

All it takes is an agenda item with 25 signatures and 30 plus LR shooters showing up at the winter meeting with proxies to change it. However, you will have to have a second agenda item to take SOY out from under the LRC and give it back in the rule book controlled by the voters like it was before they changed it, otherwise that cabal will just override the voters like they did this year. Therein lies the entire reason for the new organization and the E Board does not give a damn about LR and lets the LRC run wild and override the voters. They will try to control and change the agenda item on the floor like they did this year, you have to have the voters in place with proxies to control the attempted changes and the final vote. It does not get any simpler or more complex than that. If it passes to the one year trial, it will get approved next year by the voters 99.9999% sure as it always does

 

[JFrank]

So if I understand this correctly we have now 4 different entities all with separate rules. So whatever you accomplish at one doesn't mean anything at the other.

 

[R.Morehouse]

If I had any say toward a change that I think would be great would be for the IBS to adopt the Williamsport 10 shots for record. I can't figure why if Williamsport was the 1st. & the model anyone would even consider for a moment lowering by 1/2 the record round count......Who in their right mind wouldn't want to shoot more??........

Regards
Rick

 

[Evlshnngns]

If I had any say toward a change that I think would be great would be for the IBS to adopt the Williamsport 10 shots for record. I can't figure why if Williamsport was the 1st. & the model anyone would even consider for a moment lowering by 1/2 the record round count......Who in their right mind wouldn't want to shoot more??........

Regards
Rick

Twice as much brass prep....LOL

 

[johara1]

If I had any say toward a change that I think would be great would be for the IBS to adopt the Williamsport 10 shots for record. I can't figure why if Williamsport was the 1st. & the model anyone would even consider for a moment lowering by 1/2 the record round count......Who in their right mind wouldn't want to shoot more??........

Regards
Rick

Rick, I can't say for sure if Williamsport was first, but I tore out the old Johnstown range and they had 6 concrete benches for 1000 yds and that was in 1966 they had 25 targets total, but somebody moved in on the impact area. You are right about the ten shots and who in their right mind would more, but I think you answered your own question...... LOL.... jim

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Well, I wish every club and organization the best of luck. I hope the GBA is a huge success with leadership that have no personal agendas and truly want to see equality across the country. Pleasing everyone is a tall order but I hope they pull it off, maybe we will all be shooting GBA in 5 years who knows. So long as there are guys that want to shoot the smallest groups in the world and push the envelope BR is not going anywhere. We'll see how it goes and I hope that if it doesnt work out the IBS can welcome them back with no hard feelings. If it works out then great. Shoot for what ever makes you happy.

 

[Savgeguy71]

Well, I wish every club and organization the best of luck. I hope the GBA is a huge success with leadership that have no personal agendas and truly want to see equality across the country. Pleasing everyone is a tall order but I hope they pull it off, maybe we will all be shooting GBA in 5 years who knows. So long as there are guys that want to shoot the smallest groups in the world and push the envelope BR is not going anywhere. We'll see how it goes and I hope that if it doesnt work out the IBS can welcome them back with no hard feelings. If it works out then great. Shoot for what ever makes you happy.

Mr Wheeler , I couldn't agree more ! Hope its driven by pure love for sport and not agenda's and wish it well ! As for getting everyone to agree.......Chevy , Dodge, Ford ? LOL. I'm sure each group has a reason the rules they have are in place. I personally think everyone would want purity for sport , purity in form and purity in intention , time will tell and as you stated , who knows , maybe it'll be the GBA for all in a few years. I believe in sitting back and watching the show and try to do my best at being part of the solution not part of the problem. Take a young person shooting , that always gets the head clear and gets you thinking positive for the future of the sport ! Just my .02

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Like I stated above; I'm all for Williamsport's precedence to rules, and there inability to change rules and formats !.!.!
Likely why they've been here +50-years, and why there's chaos else where.

Donovan, I have no dog in the long range fight, yet. That said, the inability of IBS to change rules and the process by which rules are changed...is and has been an issue for far too long.

IIRC, it has been SIX years...maybe seven, since the MEMBERSHIP voted, AT THE ANNUAL MEETING, to go to internet voting. It has NOT been implemented to this date.

The membership followed the rules, voted and passed a rule...and the board(S) have not implemented the properly vetted wishes of the membership.

This was the end of my IBS membership but I said then, that I'd re-join, only if it suited me to do so. I plan to shoot some of their matches and will join them this year.
What's 50 bucks?...or whatever it is now, with no magazine.

I plan to join and shoot because I plan to shoot more matches this year. I would think that to be exactly what they need, as does every organization.

All that said, it is my belief that this is self inflicted. I'm not calling out IBS members with that statement and most, if any board members weren't even there when this rule was passed...so I am not calling them out either, except to say that there is pending membership approved action that has NOT been ACTED UPON by prior board members. I've heard all of the weak, sorry excuses. It's passed time to implement a rule that the membership PASSED PROPERLY!!

We can all bellyache about what we like and don't like...long range and short...group and score. Until the board(S) implement rules that membership legitimately passed at the annual meeting....It's all on them. This mess is not by coincidence. It was brought about by just this exact kind of thing.

Right now, UBR appears to be eating their lunch in sr score... IBS' bread and butter...NBRSA in sr group...and now we have a new long range org...

Like I said, this didn't all just happen.

I do know some of the current board members and I think that they have the orgs best interest at heart. The process apparently is slow. A 6 year old passed agenda item should be acted on TODAY! That would equally apply to any and all orgs. I'm not picking on IBS, just pointing out how this stuff has happened within their org.

I agree with Alex and anyone else, wanting all orgs to succeed...as it's likely best for the sport as a whole. When they don't listen to the members, it ceases to be a viable org soon.

 

[JimPag]

Donovan, I have no dog in the long range fight, yet. That said, the inability of IBS to change rules and the process by which rules are changed...is and has been an issue for far too long.

IIRC, it has been SIX years...maybe seven, since the MEMBERSHIP voted, AT THE ANNUAL MEETING, to go to internet voting. It has NOT been implemented to this date.

The membership followed the rules, voted and passed a rule...and the board(S) have not implemented the properly vetted wishes of the membership.

This was the end of my IBS membership but I said then, that I'd re-join, only if it suited me to do so. I plan to shoot some of their matches and will join them this year.
What's 50 bucks?...or whatever it is now, with no magazine.

I plan to join and shoot because I plan to shoot more matches this year. I would think that to be exactly what they need, as does every organization.

All that said, it is my belief that this is self inflicted. I'm not calling out IBS members with that statement and most, if any board members weren't even there when this rule was passed...so I am not calling them out either, except to say that there is pending membership approved action that has NOT been ACTED UPON by prior board members. I've heard all of the weak, sorry excuses. It's passed time to implement a rule that the membership PASSED PROPERLY!!

We can all bellyache about what we like and don't like...long range and short...group and score. Until the board(S) implement rules that membership legitimately passed at the annual meeting....It's all on them. This mess is not by coincidence. It was brought about by just this exact kind of thing.

Right now, UBR appears to be eating their lunch in sr score... IBS' bread and butter...NBRSA in sr group...and now we have a new long range org...

Like I said, this didn't all just happen.

I do know some of the current board members and I think that they have the orgs best interest at heart. The process apparently is slow. A 6 year old passed agenda item should be acted on TODAY! That would equally apply to any and all orgs. I'm not picking on IBS, just pointing out how this stuff has happened within their org.

I agree with Alex and anyone else, wanting all orgs to succeed...as it's likely best for the sport as a whole. When they don't listen to the members, it ceases to be a viable org soon.

Well Mike there were 2 big problem's with the IBS. There were a lot of gray area's in the rulebook where it should of been black and white and 2nd was the inability to follow the rules that were black and white. Too many problems occurred in the last 2 years especially which left a lot of hard feeling and resentment. Some of the head honcho's are leaving and I honestly think it's headed in a positive direction. At least the VP Jim Cline from SC took time and went to Cool Acres in Georgia for a 1000 yard match, talked to some of the competitors and even shot the 1st day even though he shoots short range score. Time will tell.