getting neck runout on brass after redding type s die

[suasponte]

The other major thing I tell guys that start reloading is "DO NOT run the ram FAST!!!". Run it up and let it sit for several seconds. Let your brass normalize in the die. Even if your die is set properly for the shoulder bump you want, running it in and out fast will increase your head space instead of bumping it back. Rushing thru the process will cause you problems. Take your time.
Terry

 

[suasponte]

 

[STS]

It's difficult to do without a lathe but I would check the runout in the bushing itself. I probably have 40 or 50 bushings that I have used over the years. Out of those I have a small box with 5 or 6 that the hole in the bushing is not perpendicular to the end of the end of the bushing. The bushing is pushed up against the top of the die and the hole is not concentric to the centerline of the die. You can check the top and bottom of the bushing with a micrometer to see if they are parallel with each other then check wall thickness of the bushing with a tubing micrometer to see if the bushing is uniform side to side and top and bottom. Some of them are anything but true.

A simple test is to try another bushing first and see if your runout measurements are any better. If it is, confirm that the bushing you have been using is at fault and you can start your own "crappy bushing" box like the one I have.

 

[L W P]

Size down in 2 steps, using 2 different size bushing. Any time sizing is more then .008" there can be a problem. Your chamber seens oversize ?

Use a .336" bushing installed with numbers on bushing facing the case neck.

The expander must be .0015" to .002" smaller then bullet diameter.

All measuring is best done with a micrometer.

What 243winxb said except I use a .335" bushing with my Lapua brass. But that's just me with my brass and tension.

 

[suasponte]

I used a bushing and size for the neck tension I want to achieve. I do not like pulling it back over a mandrel as it is counter productive to bumping the shoulder. My brass is already opened by firing. I simply just size it back down with a bushing die to get it back to my desired neck tension. Just another way of skinning the goose.
Terry

 

[L W P]

You may want to try these. They help me on run out with my Redding bushing dies. Just adds a little self centering to the case going in and coming out of your die.
DIE LOCKING RINGS" data-google-factoryname="LEE PRECISION" data-google-display-index="1">
DIE LOCKING RINGS" data-google-factoryname="LEE PRECISION" data-google-display-index="1">DIE LOCKING RINGS

LEE PRECISION

(In Stock)

$3.99

 

[L W P]

I leave my expander in my die also to help push the run out from the bushing back to the outside of the case. That way I have the same tension on all my bullets. It's hard to resize the brass with just a bushing and no expander and get all of the brass to have the same tension. Unless you run a mandrel back thru the necks, but that to me is kinda the same as if you would have left the expander in the die in the first place. IMO

 

[CT10ring]

I used a bushing and size for the neck tension I want to achieve. I do not like pulling it back over a mandrel as it is counter productive to bumping the shoulder. My brass is already opened by firing. I simply just size it back down with a bushing die to get it back to my desired neck tension. Just another way of skinning the goose.
Terry

makes perfect sense. so the bushing restores the fired neck to the desired size for proper (predetermined by you) bullet tension, say .002", and does not need an expander.

In fact using an expander/mandrel overworks the brass, most likely,
stretches it, increases runout, and then pulls the shoulder "back up"? easy. Yes? thx...

 

[mikegaiz]

Have you annealed the brass in the last three shots?

 

[jepp2]

My experience with multiple caliber Redding bushing dies, used on multiple presses, is the case neck runout is going to be 0.003-0.005". I switched to Whidden bushing and more than cut the runout in half. Not running an expander in any of them. Tried the bushing numbers up, numbers down. Bushing was always loose enough to rattle in the die.

You may find this interesting, I did. Note the bushing they are measuring;
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...ading-checking-the-geometry-of-neck-bushings/

 

[243winxb]

i made a mistake somehow dealing with the thousandth column, i think my 5 digit digital caliper confused me

 

[CT10ring]

thx all, including OP for the post with helpful advice.

 

[rockwind1]

i checked my neck bushing inside run out with my accuracy one concentricity guage and it is good to go,,,almost immeasurable runout,,, less than .0005

i am still getting the occassional .003, but a lot more are .0015 or better. i have ordered a smaller bushing

 

[searcher]

I get good improvements using the S Die by leaving it a bit loose in the press, make a registration mark on the die and the press so you can see if the die is turning after a number of sizings. Most presses don't have a hole bored for the die that is in exact alignment with the shell holder. Also, helps a bit to remove the shell-holder retaining clip and allow the shell holder to float a bit more freely. It wouldn't hurt to put your die in a buddy's press and see if the run-out stays the same. And be SURE to back off the top of the die so you are not locking your sizing bushing into place. It works best being able to float. I'd use a dedicated de-capping die to ensure your de-capping mechanism is in no way moving your neck (ie ball or otherwise). Your goal of getting 1/2 MOA (or much less) should not be a problem, even WITH the run-out of .003". Even in my A/R's, I get sub-1/3 MOA in all and I know I have run-out. (But I do be sure dies are properly set and follow pretty rigorous brass prep, including neck turning). Run-out is an accuracy robber, though you just shouldn't need run-out of less than .003 to get those size groups when everything else is done right. Regarding the size bushing, the smaller you go, the larger the possibility of run-out using a floating bushing. In a bolt gun, trying to get the most out of that S die, I'd take the neck down no more than what it takes to hold the bullet firmly until fired.

 

[rockwind1]

defintely my plan on the taking neck down no more than i have to. thinking of taking down i 2 steps, will experiment first with just one .337.

i do use a dedicated decapping die and i let the shell holder float and i definetly don't lock down my sizing bushing. i removed the decapping/ball mechinism in the die.

i was toying with the idea of floating an o-ring under the locking nut to allow movement but still keep it pushed up against the threads. has anyone done that, i saw that link for the lee locking nuts.

 

[fatelvis]

Remove the spring clip holding the shell holder in your ram to allow it to float. Do that and I bet you see a difference.
Terry

I've heard that advice before and I'm gonna try it. I've heard to replace the spring retainer with an O-ring, to hold the shellholder in place.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Hey I know I am jumping into someone elses' thread about his particular needs -but- if you suggest removing the expander die in say a - Redding type S f/l sizing body die, how do you open the neck back up? Expander mandrel like Sinclairs? Glad to butt out if my questions aren't on the same topic - thx, Bill W

you dont need an expander nor do you want it in a FL bushing die. you size the neck with a bushing then plow an expander back thru makes no sense. no matter what bushing you use the expander puts it right back to the same dimension. you can keep on reducing bushing size all day but it makes no difference.

 

[243winxb]

The Whidden Gunworks Expander Balls typically allow the shooter the opportunity to adjust the neck tension from .001″ to .005″. The Expander Ball Kit comes with five Expander Balls. Each kit includes an Expander of the chosen caliber and decreases in size by .001″. Example: If an Expander Ball Kit for .243 caliber is ordered, the kit would include Expander Ball sizes .243, .242, .241, .240 and .239.

For dies using unturned necks.

http://www.whiddengunworks.com/product/expander-ball-kits-and-sets/

See video and advice from the expert at link.

 

[711rollerdog]

I have run into the same thing...
Try running a standard F/L (without the expander) die and check your runout... You will likely find if the brass is workable,the runout to be extremely minimal.
K&M sells custom mandrels for desired neck tension... Use imperial sizing wax inside the neck when expanding. It's easy to clean out with a
small cleaning rod...

 

[CT10ring]

The Whidden Gunworks Expander Balls typically allow the shooter the opportunity to adjust the neck tension from .001″ to .005″. The Expander Ball Kit comes with five Expander Balls. Each kit includes an Expander of the chosen caliber and decreases in size by .001″. Example: If an Expander Ball Kit for .243 caliber is ordered, the kit would include Expander Ball sizes .243, .242, .241, .240 and .239.

For dies using unturned necks.

http://www.whiddengunworks.com/product/expander-ball-kits-and-sets/

See video and advice from the expert at link.

awesome, thanks! off the shelf is not necessarily great for accuracy, maybe.