Gen'l Purpose Products Adapted for Barrel Cleaning

[Bottom Fodder]

I find it very interesting that people are using solution to cleans barrel that was not designed or
sold to do that and it’s doing a better job that solution that were designed and marketed to clean barrels. Maybe some those barrel cleaner company’s should come read these post and learn maybe How to improve their product
just Christmas Day rambling

 

[Fuj]

In quite a few instances, the chemicals are the same. Here's
the problem. As soon as the phrase "GUN CLEANING" is invoked,
the price is much higher then if said it's to clean a cat litter box.
Back in the day there was a joke about using Coca Cola to clean
barrels since it was the best thing around to clean rust off a bumper.
It's all about the marketing, no doubt.....

 

[6.5 forever]

Very few follow the directions on the container....

 

[KMart]

In quite a few instances, the chemicals are the same. Here's
the problem. As soon as the phrase "GUN CLEANING" is invoked,
the price is much higher then if said it's to clean a cat litter box.
Back in the day there was a joke about using Coca Cola to clean
barrels since it was the best thing around to clean rust off a bumper.
It's all about the marketing, no doubt.....

Coca Cola is also good for removing the bluing on a firearm and pitting the metal if left on too long.

 

[K22]

When you say "doing a better job" I believe it would be meaningful to define what that means. If it is appearance (i.e., a pristine visual image) that you are referring to, then I have no comment other than just be careful that the chemicals you are using isn't harming the steel in the bore.

If you are referring to performance (results on target), then all I would offer is that in my experience I have found that for the most post that established gun cleaning solvents that have been on the market for a long time seem to work just fine. I have tried several over many years such as Hoppe's 9, Shooter's Choice, Bore Tech Products, etc. In my experience, they all did an adequate job performance wise (results on target). However, I would add that I have always used a bronze brush and cleaned on a regular basis.

I am still puzzled why cleaning a firearm is such an extensive issue. There are some basics of course that should be observed so one doesn't harm the rifle during the cleaning process, but in my experience, it really isn't that complicated.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

K22
your 100% right with “it really isn't that complicated” but people like to make that way. I try to make life simple and normally I’m pleased with the results
I guess I’m just simple mind

 

[Pete Wass]

Without the aid of a borescope, most people don't know if they have a clean barrel. Then comes the question of how clean should one have a barrel? There are a few tests on YouTube showing the efficacy of the "Name Brand" cleaners, which is interesting as well. I've tried em all and settled, pretty much, on Patchout.

 

[J_idaho]

I find it very interesting that people are using solution to cleans barrel that was not designed or
sold to do that and it’s doing a better job that solution that were designed and marketed to clean barrels. Maybe some those barrel cleaner company’s should come read these post and learn maybe How to improve their product
just Christmas Day rambling

What cleaners are you talking about? I’m very curious.

 

[K22]

Without the aid of a borescope, most people don't know if they have a clean barrel. Then comes the question of how clean should one have a barrel? There are a few tests on YouTube showing the efficacy of the "Name Brand" cleaners, which is interesting as well. I've tried em all and settled, pretty much, on Patchout.

Accomplished shooters in my generation were cleaning rifles and achieving their performance goals long before scope bores were available.

My operating parameter for cleaning a rifle is a cleaning process that has proven by testing to place a clean barrel, cold barrel, and about 50 to 60 subsequent shots from a fouled / cool barrel at a consistent POI where I need it. I then clean for another 50 to 60 rounds of shooting.

However, if rigorous cleaning to achieve a specific bore scope image produces the consistent performance results that you need then far be it from me to refute your assertions.

Bottom line is that it's all about achieving the performance results that you need.

 

[Pete Wass]

Accomplished shooters in my generation were cleaning rifles and achieving their performance goals long before scope bores were available.

My operating parameter for cleaning a rifle is a cleaning process that has proven by testing to place a clean barrel, cold barrel, and about 50 to 60 subsequent shots from a fouled / cool barrel at a consistent POI where I need it. I then clean for another 50 to 60 rounds of shooting.

However, if rigorous cleaning to achieve a specific bore scope image produces the consistent performance results that you need then far be it from me to refute your assertions.

Bottom line is that it's all about achieving the performance results that you need.

Bottom line is, "It's really all about barrels". Barrels are all over the place with regard to what they like. The issue of carbon is one that is the biggest threat to accuracy Once it gets ironed on, it's damn tough to remove. Yes, we have solutions and methods of removing it but once ironed on but it's a lot of work to remove it and the reasoner to see it and to keep it off. Without a borescope it's a mystery.

 

[K22]

Bottom line is, "It's really all about barrels". Barrels are all over the place with regard to what they like. The issue of carbon is one that is the biggest threat to accuracy Once it gets ironed on, it's damn tough to remove. Yes, we have solutions and methods of removing it but once ironed on but it's a lot of work to remove it and the reasoner to see it and to keep it off. Without a borescope it's a mystery.

I never like to dismiss technology advancements "out of hand". For example, today's bullet offerings are so much better than when I started in the sporting sports. In addition, while I don't use factory ammo, today's factory ammo is far superior judging from my fellow shooters that shoot factory ammo, especially the premium grades.

If a bore scope aids one in obtaining their desired performance objective, then that is justification enough. I know I am in the minority, a dinosaur for another age but cleaning a rifle has never been a mystery to me if the measurement is performance on target.

During my time in the shooting sports and having made my fair share of mistakes and then some and having owned somewhere around 25 or so bolt-action rifles and having shot thousands of rounds cleaning has never been the issue relative to accuracy. For example, my Remington 700, heavy varmint rifle, 223 Rem, has over 3,000 rounds through it and still holds about 1/2 moa which is all I need for my purposes. This rifle has only been cleaned using a simple gun solvent such as Hoppe's 9 or Shooter's Choice since the late 90's albeit on a regular basis with a bronze brush.

In addition, I have never followed any of those prescribed break in procedures or used abrasives. However, being somewhat of a "herd animal" and always seeking some accuracy edge I began reading on the internet about all the bad things that can happen if one does not remove all the copper. So I briefly experimented with aggressive copper solvents. It created havoc with my rifles, causing clean barrel flyers and requiring several shots to re-establish consistent POI. Needless to say, I stopped that practice.

 

[Pete Wass]

I never like to dismiss technology advancements "out of hand". For example, today's bullet offerings are so much better than when I started in the sporting sports. In addition, while I don't use factory ammo, today's factory ammo is far superior judging from my fellow shooters that shoot factory ammo, especially the premium grades.

If a bore scope aids one in obtaining their desired performance objective, then that is justification enough. I know I am in the minority, a dinosaur for another age but cleaning a rifle has never been a mystery to me if the measurement is performance on target.

During my time in the shooting sports and having made my fair share of mistakes and then some and having owned somewhere around 25 or so bolt-action rifles and having shot thousands of rounds cleaning has never been the issue relative to accuracy. For example, my Remington 700, heavy varmint rifle, 223 Rem, has over 3,000 rounds through it and still holds about 1/2 moa which is all I need for my purposes. This rifle has only been cleaned using a simple gun solvent such as Hoppe's 9 or Shooter's Choice since the late 90's albeit on a regular basis with a bronze brush.

In addition, I have never followed any of those prescribed break in procedures or used abrasives. However, being somewhat of a "herd animal" and always seeking some accuracy edge I began reading on the internet about all the bad things that can happen if one does not remove all the copper. So I briefly experimented with aggressive copper solvents. It created havoc with my rifles, causing clean barrel flyers and requiring several shots to re-establish consistent POI. Needless to say, I stopped that practice.

It all depends what one considers Accuracy. I always want to see and really need groups under .100" to be competitive. Extreme accuracy is another dimension of shooting. One can't hold that with a carboned up barrel. I do not break in barrels either and I have seen at least one barrel maker say it wasn't necessary. I had a Krieger barrel years ago that looked like a moon scape inside because of inclusions having fallen out of the barrel. It coppered terribly but shot exceptionally well. Took all week to tease the copper out of it. I've been shooting Score Benchrest around 25 years. I've been through a lot of changes and theories. I've only shot 30 Cal rifles except for the past 3 years when a 6BR creeped in. I will say I haven't seen accuracy problems from not cleaning the 6 all day or at least I don't think I have but I normally don't clean during a match and usually shoot roughly 80 rounds. I will scrub to shiny after 80 rounds though. I don't trust the barrels to go beyond that.

 

[BoydAllen]

Accomplished shooters in my generation were cleaning rifles and achieving their performance goals long before scope bores were available.

My operating parameter for cleaning a rifle is a cleaning process that has proven by testing to place a clean barrel, cold barrel, and about 50 to 60 subsequent shots from a fouled / cool barrel at a consistent POI where I need it. I then clean for another 50 to 60 rounds of shooting.

However, if rigorous cleaning to achieve a specific bore scope image produces the consistent performance results that you need then far be it from me to refute your assertions.

Bottom line is that it's all about achieving the performance results that you need.

I have run onto several shooters who had no way to know that their accuracy problem was caused by hard carbon, until they bought a bore scope. The simple reason for that is that you can get a white patch with lots of hard carbon in a barrel. Do you have a bore scope?

 

[FrankG]

Without the aid of a borescope, most people don't know if they have a clean barrel. Then comes the question of how clean should one have a barrel? There are a few tests on YouTube showing the efficacy of the "Name Brand" cleaners, which is interesting as well. I've tried em all and settled, pretty much, on Patchout.

The other problem is even with a bore scope most people don't know what they are looking at.

I like the comment we get at times... no I cleaned it all the way down to bare metal! Oh really!

Some will say the barrel is clean... and to them it might look clean... but I can't tell you how many we've gotten in and not even close to being clean let alone down to bare metal.

 

[K22]

I have run onto several shooters who had no way to know that their accuracy problem was caused by hard carbon, until they bought a bore scope. The simple reason for that is that you can get a white patch with lots of hard carbon in a barrel. Do you have a bore scope?

No, but I do not refute your assertion.

Could it be that my cleaning process is sufficient because I do not shoot sustained shot sequences and I clean on a regularly basis (50-60 rounds) with a bronze brush?

 

[FrankG]

Been down this road I don't know how many times and here is a good example.

Guys will ask I/us about using CLR to clean the barrel... I say you use it... don't call me with a problem!

 

[K22]

It all depends what one considers Accuracy. I always want to see and really need groups under .100" to be competitive. Extreme accuracy is another dimension of shooting. One can't hold that with a carboned up barrel. I do not break in barrels either and I have seen at least one barrel maker say it wasn't necessary. I had a Krieger barrel years ago that looked like a moon scape inside because of inclusions having fallen out of the barrel. It coppered terribly but shot exceptionally well. Took all week to tease the copper out of it. I've been shooting Score Benchrest around 25 years. I've been through a lot of changes and theories. I've only shot 30 Cal rifles except for the past 3 years when a 6BR creeped in. I will say I haven't seen accuracy problems from not cleaning the 6 all day or at least I don't think I have but I normally don't clean during a match and usually shoot roughly 80 rounds. I will scrub to shiny after 80 rounds though. I don't trust the barrels to go beyond that.

I cannot shoot groups under .100", even off the bench with quality front and rear rest, tuned reloads, a match barrels in bedded stocks. I do not shoot benchrest competition and I will defer to those guys regarding cleaning, etc.

I am just a precision varmint / predator hunter. For me, a simple cleaning gun solvent and process with a bronze brush produces the consistent results I need.

 

[BoydAllen]

No, but I do not refute your assertion.

Could it be that my cleaning process is sufficient because I do not shoot sustained shot sequences and I clean on a regularly basis (50-60 rounds) with a bronze brush?

When I first used a bore scope I discovered that my cleaning method had been working. I clean at the range, brush a lot with a bronze brush. and do not let the fouling in my barrels sit around and harden up. Of course the fact that most of my shooting had been with 133 was a factor, given that it is the cleanest burning rifle powder that I have tried. Teslong bore scopes are so inexpensive, I cannot think of a good reason for not owning one.

 

[Pete Wass]

I have run onto several shooters who had no way to know that their accuracy problem was caused by hard carbon, until they bought a bore scope. The simple reason for that is that you can get a white patch with lots of hard carbon in a barrel. Do you have a bore scope?

I cannot shoot groups under .100", even off the bench with quality front and rear rest, tuned reloads, a match barrels in bedded stocks. I do not shoot benchrest competition and I will defer to those guys regarding cleaning, etc.

I am just a precision varmint / predator hunter. For me, a simple cleaning gun solvent and process with a bronze brush produces the consistent results I need.

I understand. Often we talk past each other on these forums. Many of us have different needs and experiences.

 

[Pete Wass]

Been down this road I don't know how many times and here is a good example.

Guys will ask I/us about using CLR to clean the barrel... I say you use it... don't call me with a problem!

View attachment 1506232

Can you share with us what problems it causes please? It would be helpful to know.

Thanks,

Pete