Gas $$

[BulletBob3701]

I woke up the other morning and discovered that gasoline had gone up 20 cents overnight and cursed myself for not filling up while I was out the night before. As gasoline prices go up I feel like I need to econimize. I'm sure I'm not alone in this. I've also notived that everyhing I normally buy and consume has gone up a minimum of 30% in the last 3 or 4 months. Meanwhile the Government continues to tell us there is no inflation - which as all of us can witness with our own eyes is a blatent lie.

Last time gasoline prices went climbing the liberals said we couldn't drill for oil in Alaska because it wouldn't help us for 5 years. Well its 5 years and not drilling hasn't helped us. We have also stopped drilling in the Gulf of Mexico by a Government order - over the orders of a Fereral Judge to allow resumption of drilling. The Department of Energy is trying to strip oil companies of their discoveries in the gulf because they are not producing oil - again because the Dept of Energy has revoked permission to produce. And finally our President Osama has repeatedly killed the XL pipeline from Canada, a safe and secure source of crude oil, and sworn to put coal fired power plants out of business. The last straw is the Sect'y of Energy saying that the Administration has no plans to lower gas/enegry costs. It sound like our leaders want us walking in the cold and dark. It als sounds like a plan to reduce us to a third world country. I plan to go PD hunting while I can still afford gas.

Bob

 

[Marlene]

The super high gas prices was the cause of the crash. Well it was the straw that broak the cammels back.

How so?

As I understand it, the securities markets crashed primarily because of bad housing debt and unexamined derivatives thereof. High gas prices had a negative impact on consumers, but not in a market-disruptive catastrophic kind of way. The collapse of bad debt derivatives was the surprise, not gas prices. Is there something I am missing?

 

[Nomad47]

Nope, you've got it right, Marlene. The housing market was a huge bubble and we all know what eventually happens to large bubbles.

On a side note (and since I live in a motorhome), the high fuel prices caused a drastic slow down in RV purchases which caused the RV industry to start hurting. Then the fuel prices went down and people wanted to resume purchasing RVs but then the banks wouldn't lend money to purchase them.

 

[Nomad47]

And when people couldn't buy RVs, they bought camels. That is what broke the camel's back.

 

[Marlene]

And when people couldn't buy RVs, they bought camels. That is what broke the camel's back.

LOL!

 

[people]

Yes the housing security market was going to go bust any way.

 

[Marlene]

people, OK. I get the connection you're making now. Quite possibly the straw.

Then we have the Gov when the good-old-boy network heard Obama was taking office they dropped gas prices back under $2.00 a gallon and have been slowly bringing them back up.

Not so sure about this. I haven't seen oil companies doing stuff to make Obama look good and can't really imagine why they would. He ran saying stuff I would expect them not to like, even if he hasn't done many of those things. I'm pretty sure gas prices dropped in 2008 because so many people were suddenly broke and demand dropped.

Late-stage capitalism is very weird. I have trouble making sense of a lot of it.

 

[bozo699]

Marlene,
Welcome to the Forum, May I assume you are a female? Are you a shooter? take care and hope you enjoy the forum, it is the best gun forum on the WWW IMHO

People, People, People!!
Not you people but all you people, Gas is cheap!! we have had this conversation many many times, it's expensive because you got used to it being $.30 a gallon for 30 years then a spike for a few years until it hit a dollar then it stayed there for the most part for years while our wages went from a couple dollars a hour to many dollars per hour, in the summer of 1980 I was in high school and for a summer job I went to work for the school district I was paid minimum wage which was $2.30 per hour which was $18.40 per day before taxes and gasoline hit a all time high of $1.35 that's not many gallons per day folks at those wages somewhere in the 13 gallon range added in my head, minimum wage now in this state is around $9.00 per hour, that is $72.00 per day before taxes, at $4.00 per gallon that is about 18 gallons on a days wages which is 5 gallons more then I could buy back in the 80's
My Grandad worked for $1.00 per day back in 1929 during harvest and that was $.25 more then most got because he was able to do two men's work, he was a sack jigger and sowed his own sacks, gasoline was $.21 per gallon that works out to just over 4 1/2 gallons of Gasoline for a full days wages and he lived 30 miles from the harvest, good thing he didn't have to drive it everyday ??? I make $29.00 per hour and I work 12 hours per day ( Grandad worked 16 hours per day ) that works out to $348 per day before taxes and at $4.00 per gallon that is approximately $87 gallons per day's wages, so I say to you at what point in history was gasoline expensive,....then or now!! Bread is expensive, WATER is expensive, a house is expensive, a vehicle is expensive,... gasoline is cheap!! Take care and enjoy it while it is still cheap, it won't stay that way forever, from 1920-1956 it varied from $.17-$.30 per gallon,..from 1957-1972 it varied from $.31-$.36 per gallon,...from 1973-1979 it varied from $.39-$.90 per gallon,...from 1980-2003 it varied from $1.25-$1.59 and from 2004- present it has varied from $1.88-$4.?? I would say gasoline has stayed pretty stable over the years, it's really only been from the gas wars in the late 1970's that the price changed much since the 1920's so people got used to the price and didn't like the change, then our generation came along and gasoline has been in the one dollar range from the 1980's- 1999 and we all got complacent with that and hate change but as you can see it really hasn't went up much compared to wages and it darn sure hasn't went up like many other things like WATER!!! enjoy my friends ;D
Wayne.

 

[drover]

bozo699,

You make some valid points in your post, however the thing that caught my eye is that you make $29.00 per hour. I can honestly say that I know very few folks who make those kind of wages. In todays economy I know more people who are working for $10, or so, per hour than I know who make over that.

In your illustration fuel costs are not hurting you too badly, but even in a household where the husband and wife both are making $10 per hour fuel (transportation) costs takes a significant portion of their wages. They both have to get to work by some form of transportation, ususally an auto, so now the cost of fuel is doubled, the cost of maintenance and insurance is doubled - with the rapid increase in fuel costs it becomes the most evil of the monsters eating away at their paycheck percentage wise.

Imagine if you can - a two wage earner household with two children, making mortgage payments, trying to keep groceries on the table, paying utility bills, attempting to have a quality of life somewhere above the poverty line and fuel prices doubling in the last three years, whichi in turn has driven up the cost of groceries, utilities, and other necessities. Not a pretty picture and there is no change in sight.

drover

 

[bozo699]

bozo699,

You make some valid points in your post, however the thing that caught my eye is that you make $29.00 per hour. I can honestly say that I know very few folks who make those kind of wages. In today's economy I know more people who are working for $10, or so, per hour than I know who make over that.

In your illustration fuel costs are not hurting you too badly, but even in a household where the husband and wife both are making $10 per hour fuel (transportation) costs takes a significant portion of their wages. They both have to get to work by some form of transportation, ususally an auto, so now the cost of fuel is doubled, the cost of maintenance and insurance is doubled - with the rapid increase in fuel costs it becomes the most evil of the monsters eating away at their paycheck percentage wise.

Imagine if you can - a two wage earner household with two children, making mortgage payments, trying to keep groceries on the table, paying utility bills, attempting to have a quality of life somewhere above the poverty line and fuel prices doubling in the last three years, whichi in turn has driven up the cost of groceries, utilities, and other necessities. Not a pretty picture and there is no change in sight.

drover

Drover,
I know a lot of people that make wayyyy more then I do, I am just a dumb electrician but I understand all to well what you are saying. I have one left in the nest and he is a senior in H.S so not much longer, however I spent 27 years raising raising three of them, I live in the blue Mt's of S.E Washington state, I live a 1260 feet above sea level and climb a 9% grade for 9 miles to reach 4000 feet, it's 45 miles one way to town and I do it almost everyday after the summit at 4000 feet it drops to 600 feet where I work so the old saying goes for me it's up hill both ways, I have made this daily trip for over 20 years, then also work full time here on the ranch so my yearly fuel bill is around $10000 my wife has been a stay home mom for the 27 1/2 years we have been married so I pay ALL the bills, so I definitely understand about the price of fuel, what I am trying to convey is the price of fuel hasn't really came up that much compared to wages in the last 80 years or so yet people complain about the price of it,yet,........when was the last time you heard of someone complaining about paying $1.25 for 16oz. of water?? That's $10.00 per gallon my friend and I see people throwing $ in the vending machines and never give it a thought and complain about gas prices, it never seizes to amaze me!! They will think nothing about spending $100 at the movie house eating $5.00 a sack pop corn and leave hungry but only complain that the fuel to get there was expensive?? I personally wished I made $5.00 per hour, gas was $.30 per gallon and a loaf of bread was $.10 but that just isn't the way it is, our Fuhrer Adolf obama has cranked our printing presses up and printing off fake money 24/7 so super hyper inflation is inevitable, I wouldn't be surprised to see $5.00 per loaf bread and $10.00 per gallon gas in the near future, and XXXXXXX digit unemployment, you will see the 1930's soup kitchens again only the population has exploded about 100 X since then so I imagine it will be way worse,..world wide famine, paranoid??... No just a realist. Unfortunately Danny the big bubble that burst in 08 hasn't even came close to bottoming out yet, enjoy the good times while you can my friends.
Wayne.

 

[40X Guy]

bozo699,

You make some valid points in your post, however the thing that caught my eye is that you make $29.00 per hour. I can honestly say that I know very few folks who make those kind of wages. In today's economy I know more people who are working for $10, or so, per hour than I know who make over that.

In your illustration fuel costs are not hurting you too badly, but even in a household where the husband and wife both are making $10 per hour fuel (transportation) costs takes a significant portion of their wages. They both have to get to work by some form of transportation, ususally an auto, so now the cost of fuel is doubled, the cost of maintenance and insurance is doubled - with the rapid increase in fuel costs it becomes the most evil of the monsters eating away at their paycheck percentage wise.

Imagine if you can - a two wage earner household with two children, making mortgage payments, trying to keep groceries on the table, paying utility bills, attempting to have a quality of life somewhere above the poverty line and fuel prices doubling in the last three years, whichi in turn has driven up the cost of groceries, utilities, and other necessities. Not a pretty picture and there is no change in sight.

drover

Drover,
I know a lot of people that make wayyyy more then I do, I am just a dumb electrician but I understand all to well what you are saying. I have one left in the nest and he is a senior in H.S so not much longer, however I spent 27 years raising raising three of them, I live in the blue Mt's of S.E Washington state, I live a 1260 feet above sea level and climb a 9% grade for 9 miles to reach 4000 feet, it's 45 miles one way to town and I do it almost everyday after the summit at 4000 feet it drops to 600 feet where I work so the old saying goes for me it's up hill both ways, I have made this daily trip for over 20 years, then also work full time here on the ranch so my yearly fuel bill is around $10000 my wife has been a stay home mom for the 27 1/2 years we have been married so I pay ALL the bills, so I definitely understand about the price of fuel, what I am trying to convey is the price of fuel hasn't really came up that much compared to wages in the last 80 years or so yet people complain about the price of it,yet,........when was the last time you heard of someone complaining about paying $1.25 for 16oz. of water?? That's $10.00 per gallon my friend and I see people throwing $ in the vending machines and never give it a thought and complain about gas prices, it never seizes to amaze me!! They will think nothing about spending $100 at the movie house eating $5.00 a sack pop corn and leave hungry but only complain that the fuel to get there was expensive?? I personally wished I made $5.00 per hour, gas was $.30 per gallon and a loaf of bread was $.10 but that just isn't the way it is, our Fuhrer Adolf obama has cranked our printing presses up and printing off fake money 24/7 so super hyper inflation is inevitable, I wouldn't be surprised to see $5.00 per loaf bread and $10.00 per gallon gas in the near future, and XXXXXXX digit unemployment, you will see the 1930's soup kitchens again only the population has exploded about 100 X since then so I imagine it will be way worse,..world wide famine, paranoid??... No just a realist. Unfortunately Danny the big bubble that burst in 08 hasn't even came close to bottoming out yet, enjoy the good times while you can my friends.
Wayne.

Wayne, you have hit the nail on the head with your post especially the last few sentences! Hyperinflation is just around the corner.

Frank

 

[Marlene]

Hi Wayne (and everyone else),

Thanks for the welcome. Yes, I'm a woman. Yes, I shoot.

One of the things I've noticed since 2008 is that we have had economic collapse similar to that of the 1930s without the widespread hunger. I think that's the one good thing we can say about the industrialization of food production. You can get enough calories to live for a day, at McDonalds, for the same price as the gallon of gas we are discussing here. That situation was wildly different in the first half of the 20th century.

We may all be overweight and unhealthy, but we aren't starving. We've outsourced that sort of poverty to other parts of the world pretty successfully (but obviously not entirely).

One of the troubling things we have seen is that the jobs that paid $10 an hour 20 years ago, still pay $10 an hour. In 1990, a good coffee shop job in Northern California (where I live) paid $10 and you could live on that with the 30 hours a week you could get. Now that job pays the same, but rents are double.

I think painful gas prices are one of the things we can latch on to because gas is an expense that few of us can avoid and prices swing so quickly. I think gas prices become emblematic of the fact that we are getting screwed.

I'm going to lay off this thread now because I came here to read and sometimes write about guns. Somehow this thread wound up catching my attention, but this place should be my escape from politics and economics.

 

[bozo699]

Marlene,
Well put.
Wayne.

 

[40X Guy]

Marlene, welcome to the site also! I come here for an escape from politics and the economy as well. There are more than a few sites out there where I vent and usually I keep it under control here.

Frank

 

[bozo699]

Frank, Marlene,
I try to keep my political views to myself as I am very one sided as at least you Frank already know, ultra conservative and cannot even bend a little to the left, but arguing about gas prices has always got under my skin because people will throw good money after bad on the stupidest things and never give it a thought but belly ache about gasoline prices ??? however I understand people have budgets and money is tight for all of us and for all those who posted that are on fixed incomes I know fuel is really a concern and as it should be, everything is expensive! I do make a good living and I am grateful for that, however when you take into account I am the only financial support in the house and I also support this go broke rock farm of mine with my day job then my yearly income is no greater if as much as most other peoples, I travel 300 miles one way to my shoots, for my son and myself it costs $500 for each shoot between fuel, motels,food, and entry fees, that is $3000 per year for just 6 shoots and that does not include any of the stuff it takes to shoot so I don't like the $4.00 plus diesel I burn nor the $10.00 per gallon water I drink while on the line and in the pits! I hope you are all able to finacially afford to go to as many shoots and other activities as you all can this year and I wish you all the best of luck in such dark times to come, may God bless us all
Wayne.

 

[Nomad47]

When I was getting ready to go out on my own many, many years ago, my late father told me to never discuss religion or politics especially in the workplace. It was sound advice.

But I know we sometimes have to vent.

 

[okedoke]

welcome marlene, wayne pretty much laid it out there on the gas but I hope we all start re-thinking copper, brass, lead, primers & powder ----- just don't forget that good drinking water has become the new gold standard ---take care---- enjoyed the thread Craig 8)

 

[billmo]

I have to agree with you Wayne. We have got to get people to understand if we want change then we got to change ourselves. Getting folks motivated and getting them to get out and vote is "KING" We can't stand another 4 years of this mess.

 

[bozo699]

I have to agree with you Wayne. We have got to get people to understand if we want change then we got to change ourselves. Getting folks motivated and getting them to get out and vote is "KING" We can't stand another 4 years of this mess.

billmo,
You got that exactly right as far as I am concerned.
Wayne.

 

[Hydenseek]

I paid $4.42/gallon for regular last night at a Shell Station. That was a shock. I think the price was $3.99 last time I filled up maybe 10 days ago.

Somebody is making money. Maybe time to buy some Shell Oil stock.

If this inflammatory response (much like the comments in the steel core ammo topic) was about gun rights I'm guessing it would have been immediately removed too?