G-3 brass question

[Machismo]

I have a H&K G-3 in my arsenal and am new to reloading. I have picked up the brass after shooting it and every round that goes through it the brass has big grooves cut in it after it is fired. Anyone here ever had the same problem? Would you re-use the brass for the same gun?

Thanks

Kyle

 

[jmatters]

What you're seeing is the result of the fluted chamber on that gun. It is designed that way to aid extraction/ejection, and the resulting brass is kind of useless. At least, I would never reload it under any circumstances. But I'm pretty sure there are some who will offer creative alternative uses for the brass...

 

[Machismo]

I assumed that you wouldn't be able to reuse it I would imagine that it would cause weak sport or pressure fluctuations. Would you think that reloading standard 308 M80 ball ammo in it with once fired brass would be OK? This gun is not used for distance shooting, it is a play gun. My 700 is for the real fun far out stuff.

 

[KevinThomas]

Again, not a problem but simply a design feature on H&Ks intended to increase reliability. Yes, they can be reloaded, and they're not a problem in that regard, but they're gonna be butt-ugly from that first firing onward.

 

[jmatters]

I learn sumpthin new ever day! Never dreamed that brass could be re-used!

 

[Machismo]

Ugly is, well, I guess I can handle it. I mean, we all know shinney brass shoot better. With that being said, I can't afford to only use the brass once and pitch it. That would become way too costly.

 

[KevinThomas]

Well, looking at it another way, the G-3 will pitch them for you pretty quickly. I had a H&K M91 many years ago, and never wore out a case by reloading it; lost them all long before the case died, simply because of how hard the H&K flings them. Typical German approach to this sort of thing. It has to work, and boy does it! They invented a rifle that will simultaneously defend your right flank while you engage threats to the front.

Caught a piece of brass down the back of my coat while shooting offhand at the Nationals (Perry) this past year. Burned a nice little scar on my back where it settled, but I'm just glad it was from an AR and not one of H&Ks offerings. Probably would'a knocked me cold right there on the line!

 

[jmatters]

Kyle, you mentioned you were new to reloading, so I thought I'd add some basics. Excuse me if it seems condescending... Yes, you can use other once fired brass in your G3. If it were MY gun, and unknown brass, I'd run them through a small base sizer die instead of the std sizer die. (In 308, these dies are common. Good practice to use that die any time brass from another gun is sized for any autoloader. Without that big lever of a bolt to force a round to chamber, we don't want to risk incomplete lock-up on a round that was a hair too big to fully seat in an autoloader.)

Also, invest in a good headspace guage. RCBS makes an inexpensive version of Mo Defina's class leading guage. When I first started reloading for my Garand, I couldn't understand why they sounded like mortars, and not rifle shots. Turns out I was resizing by about 14 thousandths, rather than 3.


And do Kevin a favor... If you ever shoot with him, PLEASE take a position on the extreme right end of the line! ;D

 

[Machismo]

J,

I will definitely heed your advice. I have always ran surplus government ammo through it with no real problems with circa 1982/83 ammo. As I am sure you are aware 308 is getting harder and harder to come by cheaply but, I have found here and there once fired mixed lot brass and sometimes LC match ammo. As Kevin had mentioned the G3 does make short order of finding the brass it has had its way with.

I will make the investment of the head space gauge. One question, I am not real sure how to use it to be quite honest. I have the ABC's of reloading and am about half way through it now, so hopefully that will answer a lot of questions.

I just ordered a single stage RCBS, I can't remember the exact model it was a kit for around 300$ that came with a good amount of stuff with it. I am going to my local shop after it arrives to pick up powder and primers and such. I mentioned I am looking to run standard M80 ball ammo through it for the cost. My 700 will be getting new Winchester brass and 175 grain SMK.

Thanks for everything so far

-Kyle

 

[Machismo]

Kevin,

Yea you are quite right it does get the brass out of the way in a hurry. I guess the Germans like to build them tough.

-Kyle

 

[jmatters]

You're in trouble now! Don't ever stop and add up all the money you spend to "SAVE ON AMMO" by reloading. Trust me!

The headspace guage is essentially a 308 chamber that threads together, so you can put a spent case in it. The 2 "barrels"; upper and lower, are indexed so that at the std spec for headspace (base of ctg to midpoint on the shoulder), the assembled tool will read zero. All brass will stretch and then relax when fired (fire-forming), and you'll be able to read the degree to which your chamber is shorter or longer than the std. reading. For example, I have one rifle with a headspace so long, it is out of spec for 308WIN, but within tolerance for 7.62 Nato. (+.009"), my BR gun is +.006", and my old across the course gun mikes at +.001". So ideal ammo built for my longest chamber won't even fit in the old match rifle.

Controlling that headspace helps improve accuracy and brass life. The less you work the brass, the better. Whatever reading you get, try to keep the resized brass about .003" shorter, to prevent chambering problems. With a bolt action, we can size just the necks if we want to, but I usually kiss the body back .001" The amount of lube you use on a case will also affect how much the brass is resized, too, so try hard to be consistant.

Good Shooting!

 

[Steve Blair]

I have reloaded brass for my HK-91 (bought in 1982, still have it) and offer the following caveats.


1. The chambers are large. As Kevin noted, HK was all about reliability and the large, fluted chamber aided extraction. The guns still shoot pretty well. You will need a .308 small base die to size the cases. Use a stout press, the effort is high.
2. The cases are COVERED with combustion residue. This is what the flutes do. They convey high pressure gas over the case to "float" it for extraction. Then, I had a bitch of a time cleaning the cases before sizing. Now, tumbling with stainless steel pins would get them very clean, if not pretty.
3. The extractor, because of the violent action, puts a big ding on the rim. They sometimes do not fit the shell holder. I kept a little file next to the press. Also, as Kevin noted, the cases will probably be lost before they get real bad.
4. The case mouths sometimes get a BIG, v-shaped ding. They can be reloaded by using an expander and then sizing.


The good news is that rounds loaded to less than military pressures have reduced effects of all the above and make the rifle more pleasant to shoot. That is, if an 18" barreled .308 can be called pleasant.

 

[kentuckytroutbum]

My experience with a HK 91 mirrors that of sleepygator. Had to resize the fired brass in a single stage press. PITA. After 2 reloads, the cases were pretty much toast.

 

[Machismo]

Hope I can find the brass after the first reloading. But if I can get two reloadings out of it, it will save a little bit I guess. My reloader showed up today and the G3 is off at the shop with a gas issue but I hope that I can find at least some brass so my misses doesn't just glare at my new toy thinking I wasted money.

 

[Steve Blair]

Use NATO-spec brass. It's tougher and does not flow into the flutes quite as much as thinner commercial brass. Any of the boxer primed, Mil surplus ammunition should fit the bill.

 

[jlow]

Wow! I am really surprised this stuff can be reloaded. These were from a G3 that a fellow shooter shot next to me at a match – I could not believe it.

 

[KevinThomas]

jlow,

is that brass? Or are those steel cases? If they're steel, don't bother. Brass, and yeah, the dings will fireform right back out. But much like Nancy Pelosi or Hillary Clinton, it'll never be young (or pretty) again!

 

[Steve Blair]

But much like Nancy Pelosi or Hillary Clinton, it'll never be young (or pretty) again!

Were they ever?

 

[KevinThomas]

Eye of the beholder, I guess.

But I ain't beholden, and I sure ain't sayin' they ever were.

 

[jlow]

LOL! They were brass, but only range pickups as my friends shooting the G3 were not reclaiming them and I only picked them up out of curiosity.