FYI: discussions around electronic targets

[Jay Christopherson]

Just as a note after locking the other thread: discussing the use of electronic targets in competition is important and should/will be allowed in new threads. That particular thread is no longer useful in that respect.

Feel free to discuss the pros and cons of different systems, because that too, is important. But keep it on topic and with actual, real data to back up your statements. What will NOT be allowed is for manufacturers and reps (of ANY of the systems) jumping into threads to badmouth or trash the competitors systems. If you want to answer a question about your own system, and can do it without trashing someone else, great. Do it.

The same goes for end users who have no direct experience with the systems - if you dislike the idea of e-targets on general principal, fine. Say so. But don't start trashing one or the other system when you clearly don't understand how they work.

It's a sensitive subject (apparently) and so there will be relatively low tolerance for shenanigans, from any side.

Thanks.

 

[spclark]

Thanks for the new topic Jay!

I was wondering where reports from today's event at Winnequah might be posted?

This is as good a place as any.

My take on the sensitivity angle is: money. And traditions.

Technology - in any endeavor - upsets the old ways. That's just the way it is.
We're at a turning point, that's clear.

 

[GeoffR]

The thread this replaced was interesting but I agree it was time for new one.

Some of the comments were valid. I suppose some not. But one that was valid was the general assertion that when it comes to electronic target systems, they are not all the same and comparisons are like comparing "apples with oranges" - or words to that effect. I happen to agree with that.

I have been designing and building ET's in Australia for about eight years now. I have a few installed systems, the longest having been in service for a bit over fours years now. It has evolved over time (and continues to do so), and it goes by the name of Ozscore. It is in some ways quite unique and there would be no direct comparison between it and any of the other ET's available. It provides some rather interesting features. I think that we are all different - the only real common similarity being the fact that we are all trying to accurately and reliably determine the impact point of supersonic projectiles on a target. Each designer has a different way of addressing this - and this is to be expected.

This is not to say that my system (or method) is better than or any worse than any of the others - that is for others to decide. I am simply saying that I agree that it is not possible nor fair to simply make comparisons between the systems based purely on price.

Similarly, knowing a fair amount about the physics behind the operation of an [enclosed] acoustic target reliant on the detection of supersonic shockwaves - well as much as anyone in the business - there is probably more to consider than perceived accuracy in simplistic terms also.

Geoff Roberts.

Ozscore (in Australia).

 

[billlarson]

I believe elec.targets will raise scores....... and have been used in Europe and Scandinavia for decades...... however...as with any elec. device they are great while they are working...... and were I running a match..... I would have an on hand backup plan if they fail..........
bill

 

[Medic505]

E-targets can't be as bad as some of the pit service I've had. I can't wait for Nationals and a chance to shoot on them. Bring it on!

 

[aussiepowderburner]

Billlarson - please name the 1000 yard ranges in Europe?
The majority of these ranges top out at 600M.
The 1000 yard ranges are in the majority England, Scotland and Ireland.
As ranges increase etargets struggle with accuracy reporting or reporting at all if poorly maintained.
Ozscore above mentions "supersonic" but as it is part of FTR to compete with .223 the equipment should accurately report the result at 1000 yards with this cartridge!

Medic505 - await your comments after competing on e targets.

I have not shot on SMT but have numerous times on Ozscore, Hexta and Konsburgs. Hexta is by far the best in my humble opinion.

However I still reiterate that etargets are great for club weekend shoots but not suitable for major titles.

 

[jsthntn247]

Billlarson - please name the 1000 yard ranges in Europe?
The majority of these ranges top out at 600M.
The 1000 yard ranges are in the majority England, Scotland and Ireland.
As ranges increase etargets struggle with accuracy reporting or reporting at all if poorly maintained.
Ozscore above mentions "supersonic" but as it is part of FTR to compete with .223 the equipment should accurately report the result at 1000 yards with this cartridge!

Medic505 - await your comments after competing on e targets.

I have not shot on SMT but have numerous times on Ozscore, Hexta and Konsburgs. Hexta is by far the best in my humble opinion.

However I still reiterate that etargets are great for club weekend shoots but not suitable for major titles.

I shot for 2 days on a SMT target at 1k with my 223 last year and never had a shot not record. It's very hard for a target puller without a berm to indicate shots to hear or see them however.

 

[spclark]

It's very hard for a target puller without a berm to indicate shots to hear or see them however.

Hard, but not impossible. It's been done for years at Camp Perry's NRA National Championships.

Trick is training your ear to know when the crack you hear is on your target (maybe keeping a light touch on the target frame so you can 'feel' the impact) then maybe looking up at it to find the hole before pulling it for marking & scoring.

I'm of the opinion that these things are the scoring technology of the future. Paper targets have been around since before we took up shooting as a hobby. Big obstacle to wide acceptance of electronics is $$$ as the market is fairly small compared to that of, say, smart phones.

All the technologies in use are expensive, whether for range deployment or individual use. Some are more expensive than others, while it seems most aren't really portable in the sense that a single individual can easily transport the components involved.

I've only shot on an SMT G2 system I acquired for personal use late last year.From my experience it's a value. Others who've shot on it alongside me are of much the same opinion. I'm willing to give benefit of doubt that the technology being deployed at Winnequah Gun Club will be de-bugged by the time the next event is to be shot on them.

 

[Mudeat]

...
I'm willing to give benefit of doubt that the technology being deployed at Winnequah Gun Club will be de-bugged by the time the next event is to be shot on them.

I haven't heard how the long range regional went.

 

[6BRinNZ]

Hard, but not impossible. It's been done for years at Camp Perry's NRA National Championships.

Trick is training your ear to know when the crack you hear is on your target (maybe keeping a light touch on the target frame so you can 'feel' the impact) then maybe looking up at it to find the hole before pulling it for marking & scoring.

The issue I have found with 6mms at 1k on windy wild days is that the markers can't feel the shot and they have a hell of a job hearing it and even seeing it...I would be guaranteed to have several calls per relay for these reasons (more still days not so much of a problem). I stopped bothering with the 6mm as it was an uphill battle even though I loved shooting that calibre.

Wouldn't it be great if ETs opened back up the playing field as issues such as the above went away...Gen2 SMT picks up 6mm shots at 1k no worries.

 

[spclark]

I haven't heard how the long range regional went.

I wasn't there, but from what I heard from some who were:

Installation & testing of SMT system hampered by weather last week and an issue with outdoor-rated RJ-45 connectors contaminated by silicone grease, requiring expedited delivery of replacements.

Saturday got rained out after 900 yards, Sunday was fired on paper targets.

 

[swed6.5]

Sounds like a flip flop, i think as some ranges and facilities and demand to have any match or none at all, electronic targets will do fine. As for ranges that have pits, i would much rather have a call to pits to have a mark or challenge done then having to find out theres a malfunction of to much grease in a connector and to have to switch back to paper, to me just keep it simple, and give some kids a chance to make a dollar pulling targets. Hey whatever happens happens to everyone there, so hows that work with a split match scores to the NRA?

 

[Mozella]

....... snip............ to me just keep it simple, and give some kids a chance to make a dollar pulling targets....... snip...........

Wow......... a post from 1955. Who would have thought?

These days things are different. Last month I asked a kid if he would pull my targets for fifty bucks. His reply was, "Is there an app for that?". Then he said, "I don't need no fifty bucks. Bernie is gonna' make everything free".