full length sizing and bumping the shoulder back ?

[rebs]

I have some 223 ammo that I loaded for my AR and when I tried to shoot them in my Tikka T3x 223 they chamber hard or not at all. The 223 cases fired in my AR needed to have he shoulder bumped back another 2 thousands to chamber in my Tikka. Does that set the shoulder back too far to shoot the in my AR ? Does the AR head space off the shoulder ?

 

[painter]

I believe that the ar chambers are larger at the base and to use them in your tikka you would need a small base sizing die.

 

[PopCharlie]

The chamber in your AR has different dimensions than your Tikka. It is best practice to keep the brass separate. Dont mix the brass fired in the AR with brass fired in the Tikka.
Typically, you bump the shoulder back .002 for a bolt action, and .004 for an AR. Both rifles will headspace on the datum line just above the shoulder/ body junction.

PopCharlie

 

[M-61]

Does the AR head space off the shoulder

Yes. Rimless cartridges headspace from the case base to a point on the shoulder called the datum line.

F.Guffey had some interesting views on this datum line as well as bumping shoulders. If you use the search feature on this site there is much to read regarding this. I would advise not reading F.Guffeys posts and answers as aside from being confusing they never answer the asked question.

 

[bozo699]

Yes. Rimless cartridges headspace from the case base to a point on the shoulder called the datum line.

F.Guffey had some interesting views on this datum line as well as bumping shoulders. If you use the search feature on this site there is much to read regarding this. I would advise not reading F.Guffeys posts and answers as aside from being confusing they never answer the asked question.

No you are correct but they can be entertaining or frustrating,..... depending on your mood lol
Wayne

 

[Bc'z]

Yes. Rimless cartridges headspace from the case base to a point on the shoulder called the datum line.

F.Guffey had some interesting views on this datum line as well as bumping shoulders. If you use the search feature on this site there is much to read regarding this. I would advise not reading F.Guffeys posts and answers as aside from being confusing they never answer the asked question.

I believe that's because everyone talks of the cartridge having headspace.
Guffy was always trying to convey the cartridge dosen't have headspace, the chamber does.

 

[bozo699]

I believe that's because everyone talks of the cartridge having headspace.
Guffy was always trying to convey the cartridge dosen't have headspace, the chamber does.

Technically he was correct!.... miss his tutorials and graphic he used to explain his rantings hahaha!
Wayne

 

[K22]

My best advice: Let's cut to the chase - don't use cases that were fired in semi - autos in bolt rifles - period.

Why go seeking problems?

 

[joshb]

Ditto!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Separate your brass for each gun!
One of the “problems”as you crawl down the reloading for accuracy rabbit hole! Organizing loads for different guns and keeping good records!

Just so you know: I’m in the process of reloading 2000 rounds of 223. They’re “blasting ammo” so I’m sizing them back to factory specs so they’ll work in any gun. I’m going to find an accurate charge for my AR and load them up. Any of my other guns will shoot them. If I get inside 3 MOA with the bolt guns, I’ll be good with that. I just want a stash of ammo!

I have my Lapua brass and custom bullets for my bolt guns, too, but this is different.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Technically he was correct!.... miss his tutorials and graphic he used to explain his rantings hahaha!
Wayne

The best one was the picture of his car that @dmoran posted. He also had other logos for guff

 

[skeeljc]

I have an AR-15 with a White Oak barrel with a 5.56 Wylde chamber. I also have a Remington 700 with a Krieger barrel with a standard .223 chamber. Fired cases from the AR with the Wylde chamber measure 1.459" with a Sinclair 23 degree shoulder bump gauge. Fired cases from the Rem 700 measure 1.452". I bump the AR cases back to 1.455" and the Rem 700 cases back to 1.450". I do not use a small base die for either rifle. The Rem 700 reloads bumped to 1.450" shoot well in the AR. 1.455" cases shoot the best in the AR-15. Both rifles shoot sub 1/2 MOA.

 

[bozo699]

The best one was the picture of his car that @dmoran posted. He also had other logos for guff

I’ll have to look through Donovan’s posts and see if I can find that. I’m sure I saw it at one time but hell I need a good laugh.
Wayne

 

[Uncle Ed]

Yes. Rimless cartridges headspace from the case base to a point on the shoulder called the datum line.

F.Guffey had some interesting views on this datum line as well as bumping shoulders. If you use the search feature on this site there is much to read regarding this. I would advise not reading F.Guffeys posts and answers as aside from being confusing they never answer the asked question.

Originally posted by F. Guffey:

They posted a cartoon illustration claiming the shoulder is moved back when sized; I claim it is impossible to move the shoulder back with a die that has full case body support. And sure enough the claims department posted the cartoon.

F. Guffey

Don't worry bozo699, F. Guffey is alive and well spreading bovine scat in many other forums.

Below is from this forum.

BoydAllen asked,
F.Guffey,
Do you write this stuff sober?

 

[ebb]

Is it really full length sizing if the shell holder doesn't touch the bottom of the die? Obviously a neck sizing die won't move the shoulder. But just cause you use a full length die, but don't use it completely is it really full length sizing????? Is bumping the shoulder full length sizing knowing full well that with the taper in the die the base didn't get sized???? Don't go crazy there is a question mark at the end of each sentence. But between you and me I don't think it is.

 

[JFrank]

Is it really full length sizing if the shell holder doesn't touch the bottom of the die? Obviously a neck sizing die won't move the shoulder. But just cause you use a full length die, but don't use it completely is it really full length sizing????? Is bumping the shoulder full length sizing knowing full well that with the taper in the die the base didn't get sized???? Don't go crazy there is a question mark at the end of each sentence. But between you and me I don't think it is.

Easy enough to find out, draw a diagram of the case then record the before and after sizing dimensions.
i have Dies that completely size with .004 between the die and shell holder another with .007 while my newest are full contact that cam over a tiny scosh.

I’ll skip the Guffey quote...
J

 

[skeeljc]

If you want to be really precise bumping case shoulders set your FL die so the shell holder contacts the die and then use Redding's Competition Shell Holders. Then you can easily change the amount of shoulder bump. Setting the die to contact the shell holder eliminates any error in the press stop (some presses do not go over center).

I have been really impressed with the MEC Marksman press. I use the Marksman to size cases and seat bullets with Redding Competition dies and my case and bullet run out are less than .002" T.I.R.

 

[rebs]

How do you know if the shoulder needs to be bumped more or if the case is not being fully sized all the way down to the base ?

 

[Bc'z]

How do you know if the shoulder needs to be bumped more or if the case is not being fully sized all the way down to the base ?

If it chambers easily

 

[JFrank]

How do you know if the shoulder needs to be bumped more or if the case is not being fully sized all the way down to the base ?

As Brett says free chambering is an indication that the shoulder has been set back, clickers at the top of the bolt lift would indicate the base needs additional sizing.
J

 

[rebs]

I haven't noticed any clickers, just the bolt closing hard.When I first started loading for the bolt gun I had to turn the sizing die a little further down. Those load right now, chamber easy and no clicks. Now when I want to load for my AR do I have to readjust the die back up for proper head space in the Ar ?