Since the cartridge body is tapered and I assume the die wall is tapered, the side wall and case head area would only be sized if the case was pushed into the die the maximum amount. If you are backing the die out from the die touches shell holder position it's impossible to size the side walls and head. Backing off the die to adjust the shoulder bump means the side walls cannot touch the die. Is this correct? I don't see how it can be any other way.
FULL LENGTH RESIZING
- Thread starter Webster
- Start date
Less speculation...more testing. If you have a gauge to accurately measure shoulder position, relative to the head, and you measure the body of the case at the shoulder and about .3 up from the head, before and after sizing, you will see what is actually taking place. If you remove the expander, to save over working the neck, run the die in till it touches the shell holder, and then back it out a quarter turn, you can do multiple sizings and measurements as you adjust the die down by very small amounts, remembering that a full turn of the die will move it .071, so very small adjustments are required if you want to be precise. Once you have done this exercise to the point where the case's "headspace" is a thousandth shorter than a case that has been fired multiple times with warm loads, you will fully understand what takes place. Until you have done this little excise, you may not. And I will give you one more tip, knock the primer out before you start this test, so that a slightly protruding primer, or primer crater will not mess up you measurements. In a typical die, the body will start to be sized well before the shoulder of the die hits the shoulder of the case, but then most don't know how much their dies are reducing the diameters of their cases, or what the amount of body taper per inch (or decimal fraction of and inch) is.
Academic my Dear Watson - excuse the pun - 
Seriously - the only way to correctly set up a die for full length resizing is to measure the amount you are pushing back the shoulder. To do this you need a tool to measure shoulder bump using a fired case as your baseline. Hornady, Sinclair, RCBS, and Wilson are a few that market such tools.
In my opinion one of the most common mistakes reloaders (I'm not imply you are one of them) make is improperly using the full size die, either sizing too much which creates too much headspace or too little which causes difficulty chambering a reloaded cartridge.
Seriously - the only way to correctly set up a die for full length resizing is to measure the amount you are pushing back the shoulder. To do this you need a tool to measure shoulder bump using a fired case as your baseline. Hornady, Sinclair, RCBS, and Wilson are a few that market such tools.
In my opinion one of the most common mistakes reloaders (I'm not imply you are one of them) make is improperly using the full size die, either sizing too much which creates too much headspace or too little which causes difficulty chambering a reloaded cartridge.
Got a pump, lever-action, or semi-autoloader you're loading for? Then need to FL size your brass.
Got an FL size die? Doesn't matter if it's a bushing die or integral neck, can adjust the die's lock ring (or use spacers under) to size only the area you desire. Got an FL Bushing die, type S? Redding says w/o bushing or decap stem they'll function as a body die.
Got a bolt rifle? Best results from partial neck-sizing. IE, size only half the neck length. Long as don't have to force the ammunition to chamber and eject loaded round you achieve minimal fire/work sizing cycle. When brass shows resistance to chambering effort, remove spacer and allow die to bump shoulder back.
If your ammunition will only be fired in one particular rifle, your chamber is all the gauge you need. Find a case that binds or closes with significant resistance then begin adjusting your sizer til bolt will just smoothly close with a bit of effort. Try several similar brass and determine your standard to be correct. Maybe adjust die another 1/6 turn in to be sure and set the lock ring.
Skip's Die Spacer set will allow you to move die up or down in press w/o resetting lock ring.
For best results, use a cross-bolt tensioning lock ring rather than one that screws straight into threads. Set your lock ring with deprime pin in primer pocket. Aligns your depriming rod and sizing ball as well.
Got an FL size die? Doesn't matter if it's a bushing die or integral neck, can adjust the die's lock ring (or use spacers under) to size only the area you desire. Got an FL Bushing die, type S? Redding says w/o bushing or decap stem they'll function as a body die.
Got a bolt rifle? Best results from partial neck-sizing. IE, size only half the neck length. Long as don't have to force the ammunition to chamber and eject loaded round you achieve minimal fire/work sizing cycle. When brass shows resistance to chambering effort, remove spacer and allow die to bump shoulder back.
If your ammunition will only be fired in one particular rifle, your chamber is all the gauge you need. Find a case that binds or closes with significant resistance then begin adjusting your sizer til bolt will just smoothly close with a bit of effort. Try several similar brass and determine your standard to be correct. Maybe adjust die another 1/6 turn in to be sure and set the lock ring.
Skip's Die Spacer set will allow you to move die up or down in press w/o resetting lock ring.
For best results, use a cross-bolt tensioning lock ring rather than one that screws straight into threads. Set your lock ring with deprime pin in primer pocket. Aligns your depriming rod and sizing ball as well.
Hogan, I did read the aricle from Glen Zediker. At his point I'm going ot pull 5 bullets, resize with a small base die and reload with same powder and charge. If I dont see one hell of an improvement I will add 1 grain powder and try again. If that doesnt work I;ll be on the search for some other tooling recomended by alot of you. KInd of glad I had this problem, it's education in itself.
I'll get back to you all this weekend with some feed back as a follow up. I owe you that since you were kind enough to give a rookie some needed advice.
I may also try a few different powders. I was smart enough to stock up on 2-3 lb each of 15 different powders. IMR 4895, 3031, and 4064, and Hogdon Varget happen to be in my inventory. Didnt get to Alliant 15, damn you Feinstein and Obama.
Again, thank you all for your valued feed back, it's greatly appreciated.
I'll get back to you all this weekend with some feed back as a follow up. I owe you that since you were kind enough to give a rookie some needed advice.
I may also try a few different powders. I was smart enough to stock up on 2-3 lb each of 15 different powders. IMR 4895, 3031, and 4064, and Hogdon Varget happen to be in my inventory. Didnt get to Alliant 15, damn you Feinstein and Obama.
Again, thank you all for your valued feed back, it's greatly appreciated.
GSPV
A failure to plan is a plan for failure.
Boyd,
No one is answering, so I'll be volunteer to be the dummy and, in beating me up where I'm wrong, the others can be educated.
OK, so reloading does are 7/8" x 14. That means a 7/8" hole, which is irrelevant to the discussion, 14 threads per inch. That means that one turn is 1/14th of an inch, right? So, 1/6 of 1 turn would be 1/6th of 1/14th inch, right?
So, 1/6th turn would be a skosh less than 12 thou. Is that right? I used all the digits on my calculator, so in addition to being generally stupid about such things, the rounding might make this off.
In looking back, I can see where someone that didn't know me might think that I was being sarcastic. It's totally sincere.
Greg J.
No one is answering, so I'll be volunteer to be the dummy and, in beating me up where I'm wrong, the others can be educated.
OK, so reloading does are 7/8" x 14. That means a 7/8" hole, which is irrelevant to the discussion, 14 threads per inch. That means that one turn is 1/14th of an inch, right? So, 1/6 of 1 turn would be 1/6th of 1/14th inch, right?
So, 1/6th turn would be a skosh less than 12 thou. Is that right? I used all the digits on my calculator, so in addition to being generally stupid about such things, the rounding might make this off.
In looking back, I can see where someone that didn't know me might think that I was being sarcastic. It's totally sincere.
Greg J.
Erik Cortina
Team Lapua Brux Borden Captain
7/8x14 = 7/8" diameter x 14 threads per inch.
1/14 = .0714"
.714"/6 = .0119"
1/14 = .0714"
.714"/6 = .0119"
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