full length resize or neck size only ?

[J F Johannes]

If your not comfortable with Toby’s suggestion you could always use a cotton ball or TP in place of a projectile, then shoot them in the garage or back yard depends on the neighbors

I understand what your saying, you are containing the powder, no problem there, but a loose bullet could spill powder into action and chamber and cause bad things. My case necks when fired are loose. Just trying to understand this.

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

I understand what your saying, you are containing the powder, no problem there, but a loose bullet could spill powder into action and chamber and cause bad things. My case necks when fired are loose. Just trying to understand this.

Spilling powder isn't dangerous, just a nuisance. To keep from spilling powder just load the round with the muzzle pointed slightly upward. I've done this many times to produce fireformed brass for the Harrells and never had a problem.

The advantage of a bullet over a filler is that the bullet will push the case head against the boltface when firing (if you use a bullet that's long enough and the loading density is high enough to support the bullet heel).

 

[Bc'z]

Or just size the neck and continue with load development.

 

[SGK]

In conclusion, I believe that allowing the bullet to find a relatively stress-free alignment in the throat by full length sizing (including the neck) and turning necks to enhance concentricity gives the bullet the best probability of a well-aligned start into the rifling."

So we have a case which is freely floating in the chamber. Is a bullet sitting in the throat sitting true to the axis of the rifling? Or is it sitting butt end down nose up because the throat is bigger than bullet diameter? More so if bullet is being jumped? If the bullet doesn’t find alignment with the rifling until it has moved forward to contact them it seems hard to me that variances in case neck thickness to the extent less than the release dimension can have any affect on the alignment process. The neck has expanded out of the way in order for the alignment process to even begin.

 

[BoydAllen]

The problem is the "it seems to me" part. That can lead us astray, and keep us from doing experiments because we think that we do not need to because we already know what the outcome will be. Do the experiment. Believe your targets.

Let me give you an example. One of the best short range group benchrest shooters in the country is a long time friend. Years ago he wanted to know if cleaning the inside of case necks was better than not. He did the experiment and based on the outcome does not clean the inside of his case necks. His name appears in several places in the record books, and he is in the top ten of the Benchrest Hall of Fame. BTW all of his shooting is done with thrown charges. He holds and shoulders his rifle, uses a very simple rest, and squeezes a very soft rear bag. If someone that you knew was starting out in benchrest doing all of the things that I have mentioned, would you think that he was taking the wrong path? Many would.

 

[Bc'z]

So we have a case which is freely floating in the chamber. Is a bullet sitting in the throat sitting true to the axis of the rifling? Or is it sitting butt end down nose up because the throat is bigger than bullet diameter? More so if bullet is being jumped? If the bullet doesn’t find alignment with the rifling until it has moved forward to contact them it seems hard to me that variances in case neck thickness to the extent less than the release dimension can have any affect on the alignment process. The neck has expanded out of the way in order for the alignment process to even begin.

When I neck size my brass I try to leave the portion of neck next to shoulder junction un touched. " My belief " is that it aids in alignment.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

The problem is the "it seems to me" part. That can lead us astray, and keep us from doing experiments because we think that we do not need to because we already know what the outcome will be. Do the experiment. Believe your targets.

Let me give you an example. One of the best short range group benchrest shooters in the country is a long time friend. Years ago he wanted to know if cleaning the inside of case necks was better than not. He did the experiment and based on the outcome does not clean the inside of his case necks. His name appears in several places in the record books, and he is in the top ten of the Benchrest Hall of Fame. BTW all of his shooting is done with thrown charges. He holds and shoulders his rifle, uses a very simple rest, and squeezes a very soft rear bag. If someone that you knew was starting out in benchrest doing all of the things that I have mentioned, would you think that he was taking the wrong path? Many would.

Youd have quite a few here telling him hes doing it all wrong.

 

[rwj]

He holds and shoulders his rifle, uses a very simple rest, and squeezes a very soft rear bag.

Whew... glad to hear as I do too, guess I could still make the HOF... NOT!!

 

[Uncle Ed]

So we have a case which is freely floating in the chamber. Is a bullet sitting in the throat sitting true to the axis of the rifling? Or is it sitting butt end down nose up because the throat is bigger than bullet diameter? More so if bullet is being jumped? If the bullet doesn’t find alignment with the rifling until it has moved forward to contact them it seems hard to me that variances in case neck thickness to the extent less than the release dimension can have any affect on the alignment process. The neck has expanded out of the way in order for the alignment process to even begin.

When you stack plastic cups the tapered shape of the cup aligns all the cups. "And" if the last cup is held and centered by a recessed bolt face the cups wouldn't tilt.

So how much effect does the cone shaped chamber shoulder and the cone shape of the case shoulder effect case alignment and the bullet in the throat. The ejector is pushing the case forward and with a full length resized case the tapered cone shaped shoulder of the case is the only part of the case touching the chamber.

It is also stated that with neck turned brass and not sizing the case neck just above the shoulder the bullet may be even held in better alignment with the bore.

 

[59FLH]

I had a factory Remington 280 with about .006" - .007" head space, I full length sized on a RCBS die set, brass did not last. I learned about neck sizing. I have rifles today that have head space of .001" or less, can't shoulder bump to save my ass with shelf dies. Full length sizing for these seems to be about the same as neck for brass life.

 

[gumbo333]

I had a factory Remington 280 with about .006" - .007" head space, I full length sized on a RCBS die set, brass did not last. I learned about neck sizing. I have rifles today that have head space of .001" or less, can't shoulder bump to save my ass with shelf dies. Full length sizing for these seems to be about the same as neck for brass life.

I had a factory Remington 280 with about .006" - .007" head space, I full length sized on a RCBS die set, brass did not last. I learned about neck sizing. I have rifles today that have head space of .001" or less, can't shoulder bump to save my ass with shelf dies. Full length sizing for these seems to be about the same as neck for brass life.

 

[gumbo333]

You guys go to a lot of trouble. I've been neck sizing for bolt rifles for 45 years. Works. Now with the sub $300 bolt rifles from several makers and cheapo Lee dies, you can shot outstanding groups for not much moola. Is it the best, likely not, but sure does work for the average Joe. Thanks for all the good reading.

 

[SGK]

The ejector is pushing the case forward

Is this still the case with a Sako style extractor? I was under the impression that extractor claw passed over the rim of case at loading (and prior to firing). It takes very little pressure for the Blaser extractor claw to pass over the case rim. If anything, it would appear to pull the case backwards (and torque it sideways) rather than push it forwards

 

[SGK]

Ugh I think I’m getting confused between extractor and ejector... but I still feel like the while the ejector is pushing forward the extractor is holding the case back. The net effect being it is being skewed in the chamber given we have slop in CBTS (headspace), neck and jump.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Ugh I think I’m getting confused between extractor and ejector... but I still feel like the while the ejector is pushing forward the extractor is holding the case back. The net effect being it is being skewed in the chamber given we have slop in CBTS (headspace), neck and jump.

Stick a case on the boltface and see how far forward the case can go before the extractor stops it. Its very loose. Extractor doesnt pull it to the face at all

 

[Uncle Ed]

If you look at the center case below, the amount the primer is protruding is how far the extractor let the cartridge move forward. Meaning even at "headspace maximus" the extractor held the case close enough for the firing pin to set off the cartridge.

 

[BoydAllen]

I had a factory Remington 280 with about .006" - .007" head space, I full length sized on a RCBS die set, brass did not last. I learned about neck sizing. I have rifles today that have head space of .001" or less, can't shoulder bump to save my ass with shelf dies. Full length sizing for these seems to be about the same as neck for brass life.

The probable reason for your brass life problem was that you followed the factory instructions for setting the die. Do you own the proper tool for measuring cases shoulder to head? What tool do you have?

 

[59FLH]

The probable reason for your brass life problem was that you followed the factory instructions for setting the die

Absolutely, I assumed the Mfg had a clue. Here I am 40 some yrs later and I thank Al Gore every day.

 

[Richard Coody]

Absolutely, I assumed the Mfg had a clue. Here I am 40 some yrs later and I thank Al Gore every day.

Well for a novice reloader setting up the sizing die as the manufacturer recommends will certainly work. Sort of like using saami dimensions or a saami case gauge. It just isn't the best method for ultimate accuracy or brass life.

 

[Ccrider]

So, is Harrell’s measuring off of the shoulder set back or the .200 at the base of the cartridge?