full length resize or neck size only ?

[Bc'z]

Neck sizing is still popular on other forums, maybe you can bring it back to the glory days.
LE Wilson makes a good one

Mornin brother,
Heres what I know.
Yes 9 outta 10 guys FL/bump size 100% of the time.
I'm working on it, but still neck size on occasion. Depending on how the spirit moves me, and that is determined on last firing chambering easy or stiff.
Everyone has to find thier own path in this sport and figure out what works for them and thier equipment.

 

[BOB LEE SWAGGER]

Everybody neck sizes only at one point in order to acquire a well fitting FL sizing die...

 

[cw308]

I benchrest only 308 caliber , I full size some of my friends neck size , give both a honest try and see what works best for you . Accuracy in reloading , case prep , knowing your chamber measurements . The only special did is my Redding Competition Seating die and Competition Shellholders .

 

[chop house]

There’s probably a lot of closet neck sizers.
They just won’t admit it....
LOL

it is nice to not fool around with the lube....

now, on a more serious note.... ed matunas published his notes on the subject PI (pre-internet) and over 15+ years of his record keeping IIRC he found no accuracy benefit nor increased brass longevity when neck sizing only. i have the article but it is actually on paper. Obviously came from old AR mag in the last quarter of the last millennium.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

I neck size after the first firing & occasionally after the second on several calibers. But I'm using a Newlon blank that has been cut with the finish chamber reamer and I'm setting it so the bushing is sizing approx. 60% of the case neck. - I'm also using Imperial case sizing lube (light coating) on the neck only to try to ease any stress that could be placed on the body of the brass case. - Until the brass is fully formed to the chamber, which I determine though measurements taken with a shoulder "bump" gage then I'm neck sizing. - From about the Third firing on I'm F/L sizing and bumping the shoulder 0.0005 to 0.001 and I'm checking for "feel" in the chamber with a dry piece of sized brass.
As was mentioned, a Proper Full-Length sizing die is "Key" to where it is just sizing the body the correct amount.

 

[BoydAllen]

There are always some variables in a discussion of this sort. Those that have no experience with closely matched chamber and die, will be thinking of their experiences with mismatched die chamber combinations. There is also the matter of accuracy expectations and standards. They can vary considerably. Another thing is what different people mean when they refer to"shooting benchrest". For some, it means any shooting from a bench using some sort of rest and sandbag setup. Others are referring to actual competition. Some people own concentricity gauges, others don't. Experiment, and do what your targets tell you works the best. If you have the urge to buy a new toy, think about better dies and/or a concentricity gauge.

 

[Bc'z]

1st I'd need to build a rifle worthy of custom dies.

 

[ClassCat]

Redding S.B. Die .. 40 + firings on 1 piece of brass. I M O neck sizing is part of fine tuning.

 

[K22]

On the other hand,you could be telling the myth.

Not really, at least base on my experience of loading thousands of center fire rifle cartridges for nearly 50 years. When I first started loading for precision varmint loads I used neck sizing since that's what the gun writers were saying at the time produces the most accurate reloads and longest case life. The only compliant about neck sizing that I had was functionality. I had to contend with an occasional neck size round not chambering and having to full size every so often which became a pain trying to predict which in turn meant I had to check each round to make sure it would chamber if I didn't full size. By the way using the instructions for full sizing that came with the die produced over sizing.

Then I met an experience bench rest shooter / reloader. I tried his advice, full sizing with a slight shoulder bump to custom fit the case to a specific rifle chamber. Initially I used the manual method, adjusting the die a little at a time until I obtain the right fit in the chamber. It worked well enough but eventually I began using measuring gauges and dies shims to refine the process to achieve optimum shoulder bump.

Been doing that now for over 20 years and I've experienced no loss in accuracy or reduction in case life. In some cases accuracy improved albeit only slightly. But the key for me was having reliable reloads that would function without difficulty and without having to check each one in the rifle before I went into the field.

PS: I have a drawer full of neck sizing dies to prove I tried them.

 

[Shooter13]

For Sale Ocean Front Property Phoniex Arizona . Pass the Pop Corn Please

And the myth continues!

 

[Sigguy552]

.... It worked well enough but eventually I began using measuring gauges and dies shims to refine the process to achieve optimum shoulder bump.

Can you elaborate what those tools are? I just started precision reloading with a co-ax and Forster dies. I also have a digital caliper and have been looking at hornady comparator kit to measure CBTO. Seems like I need some additional measurement tools but not sure what else.

 

[Webster]

At some point, what is needed is some direct exposure to reality, rather than online discussion. Go to a short range group benchrest match, and watch people reload. Without interrupting their progress unduly, ask how they are sizing. They are all there doing the things that they believe will give them the best chance of doing well in or winning the match, based on their own experiences and observation of the top shooters. This is all known stuff that is not controversial.

People resist believing good information.

 

[BoydAllen]

Back in the day, when they first came out, and were made by Stoney Point, (now sold by Hornady) I bought one of their comparitor sets that Hornady incorrectly calls a headspace gauge. Before that I had a Wilson gauge for one caliber and while they work, I prefer the Stoney Point/Hornady tool. It works just fine, and with the set of attachments it covers every caliber that I have.

 

[ricco1949]

Exception To The Rule:

IMO there is only one reason for not FL resizing....... progressive press reloading for high volume colony rodent shooting.

Neck sizing allows the case to be resized without lubricant...... no spraying and no cleanup after.

My 223's are loaded using a Lee collet die and Vartarg's with a Redding bushing neck die.

Yes there's an occasional tight case, but keeping the lugs greased allows them to chamber without galling. Then keep them separate for FL sizing in a body die next reloading session.

However, there may be a solution to the bothersome lube cleanup associated with FL resizing..... Ballistol lube and no cleanup as has been posted in AS tech articles. I have used Ballistol successfully for forming VT's from LC brass so it sure oughta work for high volume FL resizing.

 

[CharlieNC]

My single experience where neck sizing provides better results than FL is for my 223. After the initial firing the head space does not grow, and remains very consistent such that neck sizing provides more uniform headspace than FL. All cases are approx .001 clearance so no tight chamber issues. I have proven this to myself on four different barrels. This is not the situation for any of my other rounds which do require FL sizing for proper clambering.

 

[6MMsteve]

I use to nk size until I joined ACC Shooter... now it's all FL..but all I use is commercial dies..but my accuracy improved 10 fold..but not just FL sizing I had a lot of bad habits

 

[K22]

Can you elaborate what those tools are? I just started precision reloading with a co-ax and Forster dies. I also have a digital caliper and have been looking at hornady comparator kit to measure CBTO. Seems like I need some additional measurement tools but not sure what else.

Both Sinclair and Hornady market "bump / headspace" gauges that can be used with for multiple calibers via their inserts to measure the degree of shoulder set back. These also require a reasonably precise caliber to use.

I personally like the Hornady tool to measure the amount of shoulder bump and set my full sizing die accordingly. I use Skip Shims (available at Sinclair) to make adjustments to shoulder bump if necessary as the cases harden over time with repeated loadings.

RCBS makes a caliber specific tool for this purpose but it pricey especially if you reload more than one caliber.

Wilson also make a "case gauge" for indicating shoulder set back but it's more difficult to use if you want to measure precise shoulder set back. However it's an effective qualitative tool by comparing a fire case to a size case.

Whatever tool you choose this work only if you dedicate a group of cases to a specific rifle since what you are attempting to achieve is a .001 to .002" shoulder set back (bolt rifles) from a fired case in a specific rifle.

 

[Uncle Ed]

A loaded round should fit in a chamber like a rat turd in a violin case.

Kevin Thomas
Lapua USA

"There's two very common misconceptions that you've expressed here, and I'd like to address them both. One , that N/S extends the life of the brass. As I said, if done properly, F/L sizing gives you every bit as long of case life as N/S can, but without all the additional headaches that go hand in hand with neck sizing. You will have problems if you stick to neck sizing. It's not a question of if but of when. I tend to believe in Murphy in these things, and he'll usually find you when you can least afford a visit from him. And Two, that full length sizing somehow produces less accurate ammo than neck sizing. It doesn't, and is generally the other way around. Virtually all accuracy labs that I'm aware of use nothing but full length sizing for all their testing, and accuracy is what most reloader's dream of. I've fired literally hundreds of thousands of ten shot groups, with well over 95% of them staying far below the 1/2 MOA mark. In fact, when a rifle wouldn't consistently hold 1/2 MOA or under, I scrapped the barrel, as I could no longer use it for test purposes. All of that ammo was full length sized, NEVER neck sized, as it had to work in a variety of different guns. MY predecessor at Sierra, Jim Hull, used to say that a loaded round should fit in a chamber," like a rat turd in a violin case." Jim had a way with words, and creating visual images. But the idea is that it should fit freely, without binding or jamming when chambered. Forget the nonsense about N/S ammo giving better accuracy, because it's exactlyvariety that, nonsense. A few isolated examples of individual guns or groups don't change that, and it's the long run averages that count."variety


The Rifleman's Journal
Germán A. Salazar

"a full-length sized case in which the neck is also fully sized. There is clearance at the neck and in the body of the case, the closest fit anywhere is the bullet in the throat. If the neck to bullet concentricity is good (although it needn't be perfect), then the bullet will find good alignment in the throat and the case body and neck will have minimal influence. Let's not forget that the base of the case is supported by the bolt face or the extractor to a certain degree as well; this is yet another influence on alignment. As you can see, there are several points from base to bullet that can have an effect. My procedure is to minimize the influence of those that I can control, namely the case body and neck, and let the alignment be dictated by the fit of the bullet in the throat and to some extent by the bolt's support of the base. Barring a seriously out of square case head, I don't think the bolt can have a negative effect on alignment, only a slightly positive effect from minimizing "case droop" in the chamber. Given that a resized case will usually have a maximum of 0.001" diametrical clearance at the web, this isn't much of a factor anyway.

In conclusion, I believe that allowing the bullet to find a relatively stress-free alignment in the throat by full length sizing (including the neck) and turning necks to enhance concentricity gives the bullet the best probability of a well-aligned start into the rifling."

 

[cw308]

I switched from neck sizing to full length sizing . My cases would get shorter from expansion so that would leave to much wiggle room from base to shoulder finding base to ogive was never accurate . After full sizing and knowing my bolt face to datum ( shoulder ) measurement , I size to .001 - .002 no more or less . Now I can get a very accurate measurement from bolt face to ogive , enabling me to jump , touch or jam your reloads . Full length resizing has worked much better for me . I use the closed bolt method using just the bolt housing and double checked with a Go Gage and shims . Also to find the ogive using the closed bolt method. Gives me repeatable measurements , very accurate .

 

[SGK]

So here's a question. I fire-formed 50 Lapua cases 308 Win. and measured their CBTS:

o 1.6240" 1

o 1.6245 17

o 1.6250 23

o 1.6255 7

o 1.6260 2

I FL resized the cases to a CBTS of 1.625" only. So some were bumped a little and others not. They were fired again during incremental load testing (so 2x fired). I measured 40 of them:

o 1.6245 9

o 1.6250 13

o 1.6255 16

o 1.6260 2

I keep hearing about bumping 1-2 thou. However it would seem to me that such a big bump would continually shorten the cases. To what length would you size the 2x fired brass?