FTR, Juggernaut Velocity

[Robert G]

Working on a load for my FTR Rifle with Juggernauts so I can save my 200.20x's for big matches. Starting @2732fps at the muzzle my balistics app says I'll be 1327fps@ 1000yds.
Is that slow enough to be concerned?

 

[Ned Ludd]

There is often a very nice node with Juggernauts over Varget in the 2725 to 2750-ish fps range from a 30" barrel. It works at 1000 yd, even at relatively low elevation, so you should be fine. Basically, it is what it is. It's generally not realistic to try and tune to the next higher node, which may easily be above safe operating pressure. About the only thing you can usually do is to go with a bullet of comparable weight (velocity) that has a higher BC. Along that line, you might give the 185 Hybrid a look. In my hands, the 185 Hybrid is relatively easy to tune and it has a slightly higher BC (~4%). The obvious downside to using either of these bullets at 1000 yd is that they will exhibit noticeably more wind deflection than the 200.20Xs. The good news is that using the lower BC bullets might help improve your wind reading [by necessity], while allowing you to conserve the 200.20Xs for important matches.

 

[X Count]

What is your approximate powder charge with varget?

 

[rijndael]

What is your approximate powder charge with varget?

Around 43.5 with Lapua brass, seated long.

 

[Park ranger]

I’m loading 43.5 varget + Lapua with the juggernaut seated long in my 20” AR10 service rifle and get 2550 fps. It’s fast enough to get picked up on E targets at 1000 yards.

 

[XTR]

When they were the go-to, Loaded to fit in a 2013 FTR chamber, they ran at around 2675 2775 plus or minus for most part.

Load depends on Varget lot. I thought the load most ran was in the range of 44.0 to 44.4 ish. That’s a 10 yr old memory so work up.

Juggs are one of the easiest bullets ever made to get to shoot. They should be called the “honey badger”. Put ‘em in there and shoot them, it’s probably going to work.

edit: I was thinking 185gr numbers and typing 200gr about current velovities with 200s. I corrected the numbers. I was prob running WW brass then, so my 44ish is probably in the 43s with Lapua or Peterson SRP.

 

[Robert G]

In my test yesterday I was running 44.5gr of N150 to get to 2732fps out of my 30" barrel with the Jug.

 

[mahnster]

I'm right at 2732 as well. 43.7 Varget in Peterson SRP brass.

 

[Robert G]

Yup, using Petersen SRP as well.

 

[acbrunton55]

For the 185 Juggs with my new XIT build I am using new Peterson SRP brass, FedGM205M primers, Varget. 30" Bartlein 5R barrel, (new)
43.4grs Varget, COAL 3.023, Elev 4902, Temp 73, Mean MV 2700fps, SD 4.3, ES 9.0

 

[acbrunton55]

I'll throw up the shot marker pictures and stats despite the laughter and ridicule it will prompt.
5 shot group, and then I pulled out the 5th shot thinking I made a mess of it.

 

[LVLAaron]

Solid waterline.

 

[acbrunton55]

Solid waterline.

Thanks. Here is my shot plot during a relay at our Mid-Range club match last month. I'm still figuring out rifle handling and position with this new build. Of course wind reading is still very much a challenge. CRC/Byers is humbling.

 

[BradY]

This area works just fine

 

[D-4297]

Find these numbers and velocities interesting . Been running my Jugg load at 2655 - 2660 and getting nice groups and scores running from 196 to 200 consistently over the life of this barrel . Load is 43,4gr of VV N-150 with bullet set .005 off of touch . X-count has been a bit low , but it's the gusty , windy time of the year at Ben Avery , and everyone is getting lower X numbers . Any reason to push the Velocity up , other than burn up a barrel faster ?

 

[memilanuk]

Wind drift, usually.

Whether it's enough to actually matter... is a personal decision.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Find these numbers and velocities interesting . Been running my Jugg load at 2655 - 2660 and getting nice groups and scores running from 196 to 200 consistently over the life of this barrel . Load is 43,4gr of VV N-150 with bullet set .005 off of touch . X-count has been a bit low , but it's the gusty , windy time of the year at Ben Avery , and everyone is getting lower X numbers . Any reason to push the Velocity up , other than burn up a barrel faster ?

As Monte noted, running the 2725-ish node will buy slightly better wind deflection, around 0.2 MOA less per 10 mph full value wind at 600 yd, and around 0.3 MOA less at 1000 yd. These are not huge numbers, but they're not zero either.

Keep in mind that someone running Juggernauts is already giving up even greater wind deflection to someone using a bullet such as the 200.20X at ~2650 fps velocity. The difference in windage between those two bullets translates to around 0.5 MOA less for the 200.20X at 600 yd, and around 1.2 MOA less at 1000 yd. Those differences are starting to become what I would call huge. So someone using Juggernauts can shave a little off that difference running the higher node.

An additional question would be how the precision compares between the two nodes. I know a few F-TR shooters that are running Jugs at ~2660 fps, and their rifles are shooting ridiculously tight, just crazy good. I used to run the Juggernauts at 2725 fps and I felt like the precision was also excellent, but if it's a bit easier to get the Jugs dialed in tight at 2660 fps, it would obviously factor in to the equation.

At the end of the day, each individual has to decide whether running the higher node would provide the same precision and be worth the effort. Gaining 0.2 MOA or 0.3 MOA less wind deflection at 600 yd or 1000 yd, respectively, isn't much, especially when we consider that the effective gain is probably even much less than that. If someone can reliably make wind calls to 3 mph, for example, then the difference in wind deflection between the low and high nodes would only be about one third the amount predicted for a full value 10 mph wind. I don't believe there are many F-TR shooters that can reliably shoot a difference in windage between two loads of less than 0.1 MOA at 600 yd. Nonetheless, the faster node might be worth a point just outside the 10-ring from time to time, statistically. These days, matches are often won/lost by a point or an X difference in score. So one cannot really say running the higher node would be of no value whatsoever. It just wouldn't be an in-your-face difference that was easily quantifed over the short haul.

 

[D-4297]

Excellent commentary as always . Thanks for taking the time to lay out both sides of the issue .