Frustration with Bipods!

[D-4297]

Ever ask yourself why virtually every TR shooter has ski-feet Bi-pods ? They don't allow any pre-load , or pressure to be added to the rifle . The only added pressure then , is your grip , and cheek pressure . The military used to teach what they called a "Sniper hold", to advanced Marksmen Training , now referred to as Sniper School . Firm ; but relaxed three-fingered hand grip , Right thumb on the right side of the action . Nowhere did the description say anything about choking the crap out of the rifle . Pressure , and Gorilla Grip are your biggest enemy . Patience , Grasshopper . To many "Minds".

 

[Aero]

Shoot from a sling.

Like a man.

The correct term is shoot standing up like a man. Sling, no.

The actual quote from a famous barrel maker over a century ago was "stand on your hind legs and shoot like a man" or something close to that.

As an aspiring sling shooter myself, Erik is right as well and learning proper bipod technique with a given rifle is similar to learning to shoot prone from a sling, although maybe a bit less demanding.

I plink at pasture poodles occasionally with 6 or 15 different rifles all off Harris bipods and a little "tactical" bag filled with something like the airsoft bb's. A lightweight .222 can be shot almost free recoil with very light hand, head, and shoulder contact. That doesn't work out very well with a 25-06 shooting 85 grain Ballistic Tips at blistering speeds.

 

[Topstrap]

Standing on your feet and shooting like a man may be fine for certain types of competition and is a skill most of us should practice but I believe I've also heard only a fool won't take advantage of every available type of rest to be steady when shooting.

I invite every one of those "stand on your legs and shoot like a man" to see how that does at one of my midrange rimfire steel plate matches. Each shooting discipline we all compete in needs a certain degree of accuracy to be competitive. Some shooting positions can overlap such as off a bench, prone with bipod/bag and sling only but offhand, it'd be interesting to watch.

Initially shooters at our local 1000 yard matches argued bipods weren't as good as bags but as they learned how to use them and which brands and designs worked better scores steadily climbed. Either can work well and are shot basically the same once they learned to quit battling the bipod.

It's really all about finesseing each shot instead of forcing it, I think that is why typically a female picks up quickly and becomes a good shot.

Topstrap

 

[jelenko]

Absolutely, off hand is the least stable position.
That said, silhouette shooters do fairly well. And, take a look at what smallbore competition shooters do.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Whether a bipod needs a degree of loading or not depends on how much play there is in it. I used Versa-Pods for many years and still have one for a particular rifle. It's an excellent accessory, but is exceptionally slack and some pre-loading is essential.

Moving onto specialist designs, Dan Pohlabel's Flex-Bipod for F/TR has loading as an inbuilt part of normal usage. Both of these designs, and there are others, will shoot very badly indeed without being 'loaded'. Others neither need nor work well with any loading.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/?s=flex+bipod&submit=Search

I still have my Flex-Pod but rarely use it these days. It was too radical a concept for most competitors I think, and AFAIK has been out of production for some years now, (but would love to be shown wrong on that).

Bipods with too much play are no good in my opinion. If you have to load it, whether that’s the design or not, you just aren’t going to shoot as accurately as you will with a good quality bipod like some of the models from Atlas.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Bipods are what they are, and they are not the same as a weighty and solid front rest. Nonetheless, it is possible to shoot with very good precision from a bipod. There are basically two choices: a "traditional" (Harris-type) bipod, or a ski-/sled-type bipod.

I am one of the few F-TR shooters left on the planet that uses a "traditional" bipod. I use a Long Range Accuracy (LRA) bipod, which is basically an oversized Harris/Atlas, in combination with a large, squeezable beanbag in the rear. I believe the wider footprint provides a bit more stability and counters torque a bit better than smaller traditional bipods. I load the bipod heavily, which leads me to the main caveat involved in the use of a traditional bipod; loading pressure. In order to minimize vertical dispersion, the bipod must be loaded with the same forward pressure each time.

The ski-/sled- type bipods typically have a much wider footprint than traditional bipods, even the LRA. However, you really want a slight or minimal angle on the toe of the stock or some type of bag-rider to use one of these bipods. A stock with a highly angled toe used in conjunction with a ski-type bipod can leave the muzzle pointing as much as 20-30 feet above the target at the end of the recoil impulse, which causes shooter to have to shoulder the stock back forward to bring the muzzle back down. Because they are usually used with an "eared" (i.e. non-squeezable) rear bag, elevation is controlled using the slight angle on the toe of the stock, and/or adjustment on the bipod itself. The wider footprint again is of benefit with regard to stability and opposing torque. The main caveat to the use of a ski-type bipod is that it must track straight back during the recoil impulse or horizontal dispersion will be the result.

Either type of bipod can be used with success, but each type has its nuances and the "correct use" must be learned by testing and practice. I stated the "correct use" because not everyone's body size/shape are the same, and subtle differences between individuals can mean that not everyone drives the bipod/rifle in exactly the same way or in the exact same body position. The only way I know of to determine how to best use whichever style of bipod you choose is experimentation and lots of practice. If the current position used is not working, try something different until you find a position/style that works for you. Then practice until that style/position becomes second nature.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Ok grab your popcorn cuz I’m gonna get a little long winded here...

Bipods are NOT created equal and just because it may cost a lot of money for a certain bipod does not mean it is the most accurate platform.

I have owned everything from Harris and Atlas to huge F-Class ski-pods and many things in between. I found that there are certain things that make a bipod easier to shoot and more stable for better accuracy.

First and foremost thing. NEVER get a bipod with the left to right “panning” function. Not having your bipod legs perfectly perpendicular to your stock forearm during recoil is probably one of the biggest killers of accuracy. It’s a neat little feature but that’s about it. Not worth the accuracy loss you will have.

“Cant” leveling function in a bipod is a MUST for long range shooting to make sure your rifle is level while on uneven terrain but it needs to have good quality where it will lock down tight so it doesn’t move under recoil.

Spike feet are a huge benefit. They not only keep the legs firmly planted to avoid hopping but they also help to greatly reduce felt recoil. A rifle that is more comfortable to shoot is more accurate. The absorbed recoil from a bipod with spike feet immensely enhances your ability to follow thru on the shot, especially with large magnum rifles. My 338-375 Ruger pushes 250gr Berger bullets up over 3000 fps in a 26” barrel and with my spiked foot Altlas CAL bipod, I can easily watch my splash on clay pigeons at 870 yards and the rifle only weighs in at around 12.5 lbs.

Stance of a bipod are also important. The Atlas “CAL” is my favorite because it offers a wide stance coupled with a low center of gravity yet isn’t too big to pack around on a hunting or varmint rifle. The Atlas “Super CAL” is a great choice as well since it has an even wider stance but is more of a ‘target shooting’ bipod. Of course the logic behind this is simple. A wider stance is more stable. Same reason Benchrest shooters use 3”-4” forearms on their light gun stocks and even much wider for some of the heavy guns.

Height. In the field you may have to adjust legs up to make a shot on an animal of course but when tuning loads and conducting Target practice, keep the height of your bipod legs as low as possible. Just like a wide stance, this also makes you much more stable. I also don’t like bipods that have attachment devices that make the rifle sit very far above the legs. I like the bottom of my forearm close to the top of the legs. Again, lower is better.

Fulcrum balance points matter too. I always have at least a 4” rail on my forearms, sometimes longer. Have also had rails that extend beyond the end of my stock forearm. Moving the bipod closer to the receiver makes the rifle much less stable. Moving it farther out away from the receiver makes it much more stable. But sometimes the most stable fulcrum positions are not the most accurate. I like to find a good balance of accuracy and stability. 90% of the time that point is usually flush with the end of my stock forearm or maybe 1” behind the end of it. Of course stock forearm lengths can vary but it’s just something else that can be tested with your rifle. If you are getting a lot of vertical in your groups, try moving your bipod to different forward and aft positions.

As for bags, the Armageddon Gear “Game Changer” bag is pretty much all you’ll ever need. It’s the best all around bag I have ever used. I’m sure there are other good ones out there but after going thru numerous bags over the years, I’m done searching after using the Game Changer.

I’m know there are other good bipods out they’re beside the two Atlas models I mentioned but I was using the CAL models as an example to emphasize what I am talking about.

The one little piece of advice I’ll offer on shooting form while using a bipod is on the follow thru. I always follow thru as if I’m trying to see exactly where the bullet hits in the scope after recoil. Even if you are only shooting paper at really long distances and it’s not possible to see the bullet hit on paper in the scope, still imagine and follow thru as if you could.

So in summary remember:
Low, level, dig in, line up straight, minimal pressure, and follow thru. It’s really simple once you get the hang of it.

 

[SKWERLZ]

I have no issues with bipods.
I don’t load into them, more use grip hand to pull butt into shoulder.
if I do my part I can easily see impacts and only a few tenths of a mil deflection

7 saum at 567 yards

My happy happy happy place!

rumble.com

 

[Gargoyle]

I spent a considerable amount of time on the range in zen mode. I solved all my issues by taking the bipod off the AR10 and putting it on a bolt gun.

 

[Trevor60]

My first thought is that your rear bag is too low and adjusting bag height would help with your rifle setup. Body type also matters if you thin like Brad Pitt or round like Seth Rogen who factor in to your rear support

Cheers to LRA bipods it is an outstanding piece of kit.

Video is better than words

Cheers
Trevor

 

[Gargoyle]

My first thought is that your rear bag is not tall enough and adjusting bag height would help with your rifle setup. Body type also matters if you thin like Brad Pitt or round like Seth Rogen who factor in to your rear support

Cheers to LRA bipods it is an outstanding piece of kit.

Video is better than words

Cheers
Trevor

I've watched that vid a few times. I do my best to emulate. Seems I'm good with a bolt gun, suck with an AR10.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Im fireforming for a new hunting rifle. Its pretty light but not ultra light. Decent amount of recoil, about like a 300 wsm. I used the fire forming rounds to play with my hold to see how it wanted to be shot off of the Harris bipod and rear bag. The harder I held it or loaded it the worse it shot. Free recoil was in the .2s with a zero in there as well for 3 shot groups. I could open it up to .5 moa if I really got on it. But thats been my experiance with all my bipod guns. I load them then back off to hardly any touch and squeeze the rear bag to aim. Never had luck getting top accuracy laying all over the rifle.

 

[Gargoyle]

Im fireforming for a new hunting rifle. Its pretty light but not ultra light. Decent amount of recoil, about like a 300 wsm. I used the fire forming rounds to play with my hold to see how it wanted to be shot off of the Harris bipod and rear bag. The harder I held it or loaded it the worse it shot. Free recoil was in the .2s with a zero in there as well for 3 shot groups. I could open it up to .5 moa if I really got on it. But thats been my experiance with all my bipod guns. I load them then back off to hardly any touch and squeeze the rear bag to aim. Never had luck getting top accuracy laying all over the rifle.

My range trip today is all about free recoil. Gonna bust out my bags & packs to reassure myself I can shoot, LOL! I take notice to make sure the surfaces of the forend bag and the rear bag are flat/clear so the gun can travel consistently rearward. I once had some groups vertically string and realized my rear bag developed a lip on the back and the rider was stopping abruptly on it.

 

[Delfuego]

Adding weigth to the BCG on large frame AR can help too. Smooths everything out, increases lock-time, not as hard on brass and less recoil. Makes it easier to shoot too

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I've watched that vid a few times. I do my best to emulate. Seems I'm good with a bolt gun, suck with an AR10.

I’ve never liked pistol grips. When load testing with ARs, I will shoulder and shoot them like a bolt rifle. Meaning I do not wrap my thumb around the grip just the same as how I do not wrap my thumb around the wrist of a normal bolt rifle stock. Give that a try and see if it helps