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front rest and rear bag set up on the bench video ?

michaeljp65

Im having problems with my rifles not returning to battery after every shot. Some times i have to move the whole rest either left or right or coarse adjust up or down because I've ran out of movement of the joystick. Farley rest and front bag, edgewood rear bag, 6PPC macmillan stock. I use the free recoil method of shooting but the rifle never returns to battery. Before i shoot i move the rifle back and forth to see if the cross hairs are moving vertically, they do. But once i fire its moved a fair bit. Im not sure if i need to adjust the side wings of the front bag to securely hold the stock etc etc
Does anyone know of a video on how to set up on the bench?
 
I would search you tube. Sounds like your bags are not right. Not enough sand or too much. Mybe not good enough fit or wrong angle on top.They also need set up square to the target. If the rear bag is moving, try rubber shelf liner under it. Buy a roll at Wal-Mart. If gun is not made straight, it can also cause it. If stock is not straight or action is not straight in line.

Maybe somebody that shoots BR is near you and can help. A mentor can really curve your learning. Someone at a shoot maybe can help you. Matt
 
If your cross hairs are only moving up, your rifle is settling in your rear bag. When it finally begins to return to position consistently, it has completely (relatively speaking) settled in the rear bag. I shoot F Open and fought this with Edgewood bags. I solved it by changing to a SEB with larger ears and better spacing. Both bags need to be filled to proper levels. Unfortunately, determining that will take experimentation.
If it is moving down, it probably is the front rest slipping. I had a Farley and it would do this a little.
If it is moving both vertically and horizontally, the problem is more complex and the advice from dkhunt14 is what to go with.
My $0.02.
 
I shoot F-Open. That requires I shoot prone. However, virtually ALL of my load development is done from a good concrete bench. I use an S.E.B. NEO front rest and a couple of different rear bags. For my rifles that have "flat bottoms" on the rear portion of the stocks, I use a Protektor "Doctor" rear bag with the slick-top material on the ears. On the front rest (NEO) I also use the slick material. This greatly aides in, for lack of better terminology, keeping the stock from "sticking" on it's rearward travel from the recoil. Additionally, the "space" between the ears of the bag becomes critical so the stock rides "cleanly" rearward. Personally, I like the stock to NOT be touching the stitching between the ears of the rear bag as that can cause "drag" upon recoil. I like it barely above the stitching, however, if the bag is NOT in line with the front rest, the rifle will come back at an angle to the target, thus causing "movement" and can move the rear bag and cause grouping to differ each time.

What MOST of "bag problems" comes from: 1.) not having the correct equipment; 2.) if you have the right equipment, not having it properly set up; and 3.) assuming points 1 and 2 are correct, putting undue pressure and doing it inconsistently on the stock while you're aiming and firing..

Just my 2 cents..
 
Michael,
One thing i will add to what Matt, Bob, and Ben have stated.
Rifle balance.
I struggled with this, the stock needed a little more weight in the rear of the stock to get it “settled” into the rear bag. So much of the weight of my rifle was in the barrel that the stock sort of floated in the rear bag causing me the same issue as you discribed.
CW
 
Mulligan said:
Michael,
One thing i will add to what Matt, Bob, and Ben have stated.
Rifle balance.
I struggled with this, the stock needed a little more weight in the rear of the stock to get it “settled” into the rear bag. So much of the weight of my rifle was in the barrel that the stock sort of floated in the rear bag causing me the same issue as you discribed.
CW
Click to expand...
That phenomenon could easily cause vertical stringing of the groups.. Great point..
 
Bob L. said:
If your cross hairs are only moving up, your rifle is settling in your rear bag. When it finally begins to return to position consistently, it has completely (relatively speaking) settled in the rear bag. I shoot F Open and fought this with Edgewood bags. I solved it by changing to a SEB with larger ears and better spacing. Both bags need to be filled to proper levels. Unfortunately, determining that will take experimentation.
If it is moving down, it probably is the front rest slipping. I had a Farley and it would do this a little.
If it is moving both vertically and horizontally, the problem is more complex and the advice from dkhunt14 is what to go with.
My $0.02.
Click to expand...

I just got back from the range and i did notice the movement is always up. Im always having to lower the front end. The edgewood bag, the original bag, has ears only about 1 1/2" - 2" high. The ears may need a bit more sand in them, they do feel a bit soft. I'll have a look at the SEB bags.
Should the bottom of the stock ride up in the ears or down on the stitching?
 
dkhunt14 said:
I would search you tube. Sounds like your bags are not right. Not enough sand or too much. Mybe not good enough fit or wrong angle on top.They also need set up square to the target. If the rear bag is moving, try rubber shelf liner under it. Buy a roll at Wal-Mart. If gun is not made straight, it can also cause it. If stock is not straight or action is not straight in line.

Maybe somebody that shoots BR is near you and can help. A mentor can really curve your learning. Someone at a shoot maybe can help you. Matt
Click to expand...

I make sure the rest is square to the target. I'm 99.9% sure the rear bag doesn't move, it has furry leather base and the bench concrete surface is slightly rough. As for a mentor, i have not seen another BR shooter at this range for about 2 years now. Our shooting association started a big argument with the BR shooters and they won't shoot there again. A new range is opening in a few months times where all the BR shooters will be attending.
 
ShootDots said:
I shoot F-Open. That requires I shoot prone. However, virtually ALL of my load development is done from a good concrete bench. I use an S.E.B. NEO front rest and a couple of different rear bags. For my rifles that have "flat bottoms" on the rear portion of the stocks, I use a Protektor "Doctor" rear bag with the slick-top material on the ears. On the front rest (NEO) I also use the slick material. This greatly aides in, for lack of better terminology, keeping the stock from "sticking" on it's rearward travel from the recoil. Additionally, the "space" between the ears of the bag becomes critical so the stock rides "cleanly" rearward. Personally, I like the stock to NOT be touching the stitching between the ears of the rear bag as that can cause "drag" upon recoil. I like it barely above the stitching, however, if the bag is NOT in line with the front rest, the rifle will come back at an angle to the target, thus causing "movement" and can move the rear bag and cause grouping to differ each time.

What MOST of "bag problems" comes from: 1.) not having the correct equipment; 2.) if you have the right equipment, not having it properly set up; and 3.) assuming points 1 and 2 are correct, putting undue pressure and doing it inconsistently on the stock while you're aiming and firing..

Just my 2 cents..
Click to expand...

Thanks mate, it is a bag problem i think but which one front or back i don't know. The rifle shoots really well, I'm happy with how it groups, just this bag issue p's me off.
 
michaeljp65 said:
I just got back from the range and i did notice the movement is always up. Im always having to lower the front end. The edgewood bag, the original bag, has ears only about 1 1/2" - 2" high. The ears may need a bit more sand in them, they do feel a bit soft. I'll have a look at the SEB bags.
Should the bottom of the stock ride up in the ears or down on the stitching?
Click to expand...


Above the stitchin just a smidgin like Ben said above is what works for me also.
 
Mulligan said:
Michael,
One thing i will add to what Matt, Bob, and Ben have stated.
Rifle balance.
I struggled with this, the stock needed a little more weight in the rear of the stock to get it “settled” into the rear bag. So much of the weight of my rifle was in the barrel that the stock sort of floated in the rear bag causing me the same issue as you discribed.
CW
Click to expand...

Thanks for that mate, i'll try and source some weights and see if it helps any. I just roughly tried to find the balance point of my rifle and it was about 3" forward of where the barrel screws in.
 
michaeljp65 said:
I make sure the rest is square to the target. I'm 99.9% sure the rear bag doesn't move, it has furry leather base and the bench concrete surface is slightly rough. As for a mentor, i have not seen another BR shooter at this range for about 2 years now. Our shooting association started a big argument with the BR shooters and they won't shoot there again. A new range is opening in a few months times where all the BR shooters will be attending.
Click to expand...
Make sure your rifle is square to the front bag- eyeball if the fore-end tip is parallel to the Farley top.
For short range BR, the stock should only ride on the base of the ears, never the top of the bag. The ears should be fully formed, and the base filled up to the point of not bulging (hard to overfill an Edgewood though). I strongly recommend the ears -front and rear bag -be filled with Black Diamond blasting media (Tractor Supply Co) instead of sand. Sand is usually round and settles and packs too easily. The media has sharp irregular shapes and will not pack. Each outing exercise the ears, tap the stock into the bags and run back and forth a dozen or so times.
You may be allowing the rifle to recoil back too far -poor shoulder placement. There is a fine line to get free-recoil to work. Some can never master it.
 
michaeljp65 said:
Thanks LHSmith, i'll go through the link later and have a look at other peoples set up.
Click to expand...
Well Mike here's where 2 short range score shooters disagree. I was told buy a number of shooters to only put beach sand, (I use 000 grit sandblasting sand) in the ears and black heavy sand in the main body of the bag. They told me that by putting heavy sand in the ears in will pack down harder than regular beach sand and it will throw shots by being so hard. I also disagree with the stock riding in the ears for short range anyway. I'll always remember this instance at the 2013 Score 100-200 Nationals in Weikert, PA where Harley Baker who is one of the best SR group shooters coming over to Randy Jarvais who is one of the best score shooters and Harley looked at Randy's rear bag set-up and he told Randy, that rear part of your stock should not be riding on the stitching, he said you should be able to see about a quarter inch worth of spacing between the bottom of the bag and the stock. Now who do you listen to in that case? I asked Dean Breeden who is the best SR score shooter in the IBS where his stock rides on the rear bag and he told me his stock rides on the stitching. I switched over from Harley's way to Dean's way and I have done a lot better since this. I also had to change rear bags in order to do it this way. My old Edgewood had 3/8 spacing, and my new DR bag has a 1/2" spacing. I can't argue with the results.
 
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