Forster .308 FL sizing die

[300 RUM]

I'm using a Forster .308 FL sizer die and I am getting head space differences of .004 between the ceases i.e. one might be 1.616 and another may be 1.621, does any one know of an explanation for this?

 

[Heavies]

Do you anneal the cases? What type of lube are you using? What type of press are you using?

 

[300 RUM]

This is the first time sizing for these cases once fired Lapua Lyman quick spray (I have used this many times) Lee Pres.

I never had this problem before using Lee dies and/or RCBS dies

 

[Heavies]

So the brass is new?
If the brass is not fireformed the this just might be the inconsistency in the new brass.
Or maybe uneven coating of lube on shoulder.

For the best results I have experienced I use a Redding body die first, lube only the body, and use the Redding Competition Shell Holder set. I also anneal the cases every time.

 

[Heavies]

Also, the expander ball may be pulling the shoulder back out some if the inside is not lubricated enough.

For the neck sizing I use either a Lee collet neck sizer, or Redding bushing type die.

 

[300 RUM]

Also, the expander ball may be pulling the shoulder back out some if the inside is not lubricated enough.

For the neck sizing I use either a Lee collet neck sizer, or Redding bushing type die.

You may have some thing here with the expander ball, some do pull hard and they seem to measure different.

This sucks because now I have 500 cases with mixed head space
Good call thanks

 

[300 RUM]

Not sure I'm liking this die

 

[1holeaddict]

Well i had similar issues with my brand new Forster 308 fl die. The first 3 cases i ran thru it got stuck in it and had to be removed. The fourth case got stuck and Forster told me to leave it in there and send a few cases in . I sized the rest of the lot with my old RCBS die and they went like a charm. I then get the call from Forster want $14 for shipping and to remove the case they told me to leave in there. Then he tells me there was nothing wrong with the die??? First four cases stick but when they returned it it operates flawlessly???

 

[GNERGY]

The problem with full lenght sizing dies is they size the neck down smaller than it has to be, then the expander ball forces it open working the brass twice in one operation.
This is what I did to all my dies. I measure the neck OD with the bullet seated and subtract .003 ( so I will get 3 thousandths neck tension ) If you want more or less then do the math. Then I hone the neck of the die using a round piece of steel with a hacksaw blade slot cut in it to hold a piece of sandpaper or emery paper. Use it in your drill and it will get hot fast so do it in the sink with cold running water Hone it a little at a time and then size a case and see what the neck diameter is ( without the expander ball in the die, we will sand that down later ) I start with 150 grit emery paper till I get close, It could take a half hour of honing and sizing cases to get what you want, then hone it with some 600 or finer, to final polish it. The ID of you case should be .305 dia, if you go with .003 neck tension. Then put the threaded rod with the expander ball on it in your drill and sand it down to .304 or .305. In essence you have made a poor mans bushing die. Your brass will last a lot longer and won't get stretched every time you resize them and you won't have to trim all the time. You could make your neck sizing die perform the same way, I did.
Just my $ .02
My 308 brass fits right back in my gun so all I do is neck size and load them again, just that easy.
Tarey

 

[amlevin]

The problem with full lenght sizing dies is they size the neck down smaller than it has to be, then the expander ball forces it open working the brass twice in one operation.
This is what I did to all my dies. I measure the neck OD with the bullet seated and subtract .003 ( so I will get 3 thousandths neck tension ) If you want more or less then do the math. Then I hone the neck of the die using a round piece of steel with a hacksaw blade slot cut in it to hold a piece of sandpaper or emery paper. Use it in your drill and it will get hot fast so do it in the sink with cold running water Hone it a little at a time and then size a case and see what the neck diameter is ( without the expander ball in the die, we will sand that down later ) I start with 150 grit emery paper till I get close, It could take a half hour of honing and sizing cases to get what you want, then hone it with some 600 or finer, to final polish it. The ID of you case should be .305 dia, if you go with .003 neck tension. Then put the threaded rod with the expander ball on it in your drill and sand it down to .304 or .305. In essence you have made a poor mans bushing die. Your brass will last a lot longer and won't get stretched every time you resize them and you won't have to trim all the time. You could make your neck sizing die perform the same way, I did.
Just my $ .02
My 308 brass fits right back in my gun so all I do is neck size and load them again, just that easy.
Tarey

I'd rather save up and get the bushing die. It can also be adjusted for partial neck sizing all the while it F/L sizes the case.

 

[jlow]

Not sure I'm liking this die

300 RUM - do you remember the recent discussion regarding the use of the Redding Competition Shell Holders and how it fixed my headspace problem? I think you are having the same problem.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Make certain that the decapping pin/expander ball isn't hitting the case head at the flash hole. Been there, done that - causes severe headspace variations.

 

[300 RUM]

Not sure I'm liking this die

300 RUM - do you remember the recent discussion regarding the use of the Redding Competition Shell Holders and how it fixed my headspace problem? I think you are having the same problem.

A little bit can you recap it?

 

[300 RUM]

Make certain that the decapping pin/expander ball isn't hitting the case head at the flash hole. Been there, done that - causes severe headspace variations.

Nothing appears to be hitting the bottom, how bad will inconsistent head space +/- .001 effect accuracy?

 

[holstil]

jlow, I may be missing something but it sounds to me that your not to the root cause of your problem. Those thinner shell holders should only allow more brass to get swaged by the die. If you had a gap between the ram and die when brass was in the die with the original set up, you didn't need the thinner holders. It sounds like you needed to cam over a touch to make the brass smaller. Maybe some of your brass was too small to get sized. Adding a thicker shell holder would only fill the void and possibly make contact with the die. If your making good brass now, it is a moot point and probably I misunderstand. No worries.

Chambers can be different lengths ie; head space. Brass, when new or fired without being jammed or formed to your chamber will net you a case smaller than should be sized (requiring neck portion only). They will prolly just need fired a few more times to lengthen all the cases enough to get sized back down. I would seat a couple bullets long with .004 or so neck tension to ensure fireforming then take a measurement. Back off the charge a bit.
If you already jam, then I will need to rethink. Often the case, just trying to help.

Potentially, these problems are related.

Jim

 

[holstil]

Thinking more, I am not familar with those dies. Only rcbs, redding and lee. Do they work the same? I heard one of them is a bit different with a collet.

There might be something else going on there. .001 is not alarming, most get it to .0005 or so I think. You wanna watch more than .002.

 

[300 RUM]

Thinking more, I am not familar with those dies. Only rcbs, redding and lee. Do they work the same? I heard one of them is a bit different with a collet.

There might be something else going on there. .001 is not alarming, most get it to .0005 or so I think. You wanna watch more than .002.

What are your thoughts about inconsistent head space for accuracy?

 

[holstil]

I just read your profile and feel my posts were only eating bandwidth. I am sure I am missing something with both yours and jlows issues.

As far as accuracy goes, I think it would depend on the the squareness of bolt among other things. Things being sloppy in a combustion chamber don't give me a warm fuzzy feeling. I don't have proof but my thoughts are the effects could be immeasurable to completely undesirable. I was taught to size comp brass to fit just a touch snug on the bolt and .001 on hunting ammo. Can't prove anything yet.

Jim

 

[300 RUM]

I just read your profile and feel my posts were only eating bandwidth. I am sure I am missing something with both yours and jlows issues.

As far as accuracy goes, I think it would depend on the the squareness of bolt among other things. Things being sloppy in a combustion chamber don't give me a warm fuzzy feeling. I don't have proof but my thoughts are the effects could be immeasurable to completely undesirable. I was taught to size comp brass to fit just a touch snug on the bolt and .001 on hunting ammo. Can't prove anything yet.

Jim

I'm just trying to figure out if I need to start sorting, the head space is safe (not where i would like it to be but safe)

What I am referring to is one shot with .0005 head space and another with +.0015 head space. Will the accuracy change and how much?

New brass is .005 under actual chamber head space, I'm right in between it. +/-.0008

 

[holstil]

I'm sure some will have different experience's. I don't think I could tell one from the other.
I have shot matches before where I skipped my routine of checking every round for fit. When I shot my record strings, I felt the bolt where I like it on some and loose on others. That has to be at least .0005 or more in my setup. The targets showed no problems. Not saying that will allways be the case.
It seems when I think I got it, I don't and sometimes things just line up. I have enjoyed learning all the things that are and are not necessary for me.

Let me add, I would not be happy with .001 slop. It might or might not shoot good and I need to be checking things off my (not working out for me I now have a new piece of kinling) list not adding. I would try to make it better, different setup if needed.

I new what dimins you were referring. I just couldn't quantify them. Boyd should be along here tomorrow.
Happy fourth, Jim