Forming Ackley Brass with a New Barrel

[centershot]

What are the important factors forming brass with a new barrel? To me it is slow rate of fire to keep the heat to a minimum. Anything else? What powder produces the least heat and wear and tear on the barrel? Thoughts?

 

[JMayo]

Shoot and clean for the first ten rounds. Then 3 shots and clean until you aren't getting any copper left in the barrel.

 

[Sniper338]

It aint the cheapest thing to do, but Im sure set on a fireform barrel made from a toasted barrel, cut with the same reamer, same set up..

 

[Walt Krafft]

Many times fireforming loads shoot as well as formed loads. I regularly form 22-250 to 6XC in matches with the same loads I use after they are formed.

 

[Sniper338]

Cream of wheat method with no bullet saves barrel and supplies, but you gotta clean the heck out of it.

 

[INTJ]

I use the Bullseye method to fire form improved cases. The rule is 70% of cases capacity with Bullseye then a piece of TP to hold the powder. No mess, no wear from shooting bullets. I have had great success using this method for the 6 BRA. 20 grains of bullseye and 1/8 piece of TP. I am a little more hesitant to try that with my 300 H&H AI, as 50-60 grains of Bullseye seems like a LOT of pistol powder.......

Using a hard jammed bullet for fireforming is not a big deal if you are forming 50 rounds for a big game hunting rifle. It's a bigger deal if you are forming 200-300 for a match rifle.

Many of us are not convinced that "breaking in" does anything other than use up good barrel life. I used to break in, but when I stopped I had no difference in accuracy or cleaning. It seems a rough barrel needs 150-200 rounds before it smoothes up, break-in or know. All I do now is clean every 20-30 rounds with a new barrel, usually as I am developing loads, then I am back on cleaning every 75ish. However, opinions vary greatly on barrel break in and everyone has good results with their chosen approach.

 

[jonbearman]

What caliber are you shooting. I am going to Hornady to have a 6ppc forming die(Hydraulic) You fill with alcohol or water and hit it like 3 or 4 times and it is formed enough to trim ,load and fire.The first loading should ndo a good job of forming and shoot as if you are going for accuracy(practice) with the formed brass at least 2 times. Then you are good to go. No real wasted loads as I said treat them like match loads. If I am wrong someone jump in.

 

[Oso]

You have two choices:
1) Direct Fire-forming using live ammo: Pros - Quick & easy and the fire-forming rounds are very accurate; Cons - Use up barrel life and reloading component costs
2) Cornmeal / Cream of Wheat (80% Fire-form): Pros - no wear to the barrel and no wasted reloading components; Cons - time consuming
3) Alternatives: Hydro forming or Use a donor gun to sacrifice the barrel life

You didn't mention what caliber so this may also play into the decision if it requires multiple steps to form the cartridge. Things to also consider is the (1) number of cases that you want to form and (2) caliber that you are forming (barrel life consideration). If you wanted to form 500 cases of 223AI then you are talking about 1/10 of its barrel life... not that big of a concern especially since the .223 rounds used for fire-forming will still be very accurate. If you were talking about 6PPC/BR or some other caliber with a 1,000 round barrel life then you might want to go with either the Cornmeal/Cream of Wheat Method to save barrel life. Either method can work well. Aside from barrel life, the choice is simply a trade-off between time or money.

 

[Bill Norris]

Many times fireforming loads shoot as well as formed loads. I regularly form 22-250 to 6XC in matches with the same loads I use after they are formed.

Recently fire-formed 100 new .243 Lapua brass to .243 AI in my new Custom Rem 700 Loaded all 100 with a stiff max. .243 load jam to lands .010 and shot slow fire between each round. Shot app. 25 or 35 rds. each trip to the bench and cleaned for copper the first 35 rds. Shot several 3 & 5 shot groups. All groups measured .500 or less with a few very tight 1 ragged hole groups.

 

[Fast14riot]

I use fire forming to do seating depth test, typically after formed is very close to as formed. I've also shot fire form loads in club matches.

 

[Twicepop]

Several years back I used to shoot with a couple of guys that seemed to have unlimited budgets for their guns. They both shot bench rest and 1000 yard matches, and they both had the same technique for barrel break ins. Thoroughly clean the barrel to start with, and shoot a single round and thoroughly clean again. Do this for three cycles, then go to two shot cycles, thoroughly cleaning between each cycle. If the barrel needs it, after this go to three shot cycles, thoroughly cleaning between each cycle again. When you stop getting copper stained patches, the barrel is seasoned and ready for action.
For the Ackley part of the equation, chamber and shoot factory or factory equivalent loads. The guys I shoot with that have Ackley chambered guns load their ammo with the bullets jammed into the lands for fire forming with the loads at about 90-92% of maximum density per powder used.

 

[Geno C]

I generally run a quick load work up and then run it like normal. After all the cases are formed, at least 20 pieces for my stuff, I then do a full load work up. Seating depth is usually pretty close in formed cases.

I got 5gallons of fired 260 fgmm brass from a friend. I did a full load work up on some abs have been running that ever since. I’m able to push 130s at 2985. Not 260ai speed, but good enough to shoot in matches

 

[centershot]

Thanks to all for the input. The caliber is .257 Roberts to Ackley.

 

[centershot]

Would Enduron powders be advisable? To cut down on copper fowling.

 

[Brians356]

You have two choices:
1) Direct Fire-forming using live ammo: Pros - Quick & easy and the fire-forming rounds are very accurate; Cons - Use up barrel life and reloading component costs
2) Cornmeal / Cream of Wheat (80% Fire-form): Pros - no wear to the barrel and no wasted reloading components; Cons - time consuming
3) Alternatives: Hydro forming or Use a donor gun to sacrifice the barrel life

You didn't mention what caliber so this may also play into the decision if it requires multiple steps to form the cartridge. Things to also consider is the (1) number of cases that you want to form and (2) caliber that you are forming (barrel life consideration). If you wanted to form 500 cases of 223AI then you are talking about 1/10 of its barrel life... not that big of a concern especially since the .223 rounds used for fire-forming will still be very accurate. If you were talking about 6PPC/BR or some other caliber with a 1,000 round barrel life then you might want to go with either the Cornmeal/Cream of Wheat Method to save barrel life. Either method can work well. Aside from barrel life, the choice is simply a trade-off between time or money.

4 ) Fireforming bulletless / fillerless / wadless / plugless. Just a pistol primer and Bullseye powder, about 20% of case capacity.
-

 

[msinc]

I have several Ackley Improved version rifles and to me none of them are that much greater of an advantage that it's worth it to worry about having formed cases to shoot or hunt with. Without exception, all of mine were just as accurate with the factory version as the improved case. Every rifle I have that has been improved will work fine in the factory version for the purpose intended...i.e., I would not hesitate to use either my 30-06 or 280 for black bear, deer or elk whether factory or improved, so I don't worry about it and shoot what I have at the time.
Don't get me wrong, I prefer the improved version, otherwise I wouldn't have chambered them that way. I guess if I could buy formed cases I probably would for a special hunt...but getting there is half the fun so I just fire form first and shoot the improved version when I make the cases.
I admit, I have tried the COW method, but it really don't form them very sharp and I didn't find it worth the mess and time.

 

[Rat Rifle]

In My experience, the COW didn't offer any advantage over the wad of TP, and wasn't worth the mess.

I used an expander Die to put a slight flare on the case mouth for a little tension, and fired the rifle straight up into the air. It snows TP confetti

But I have heard from knowledgeable shooters, that with no bullet to protect the lead and throat, premature damage can happen quickly in this area. A lot of rounds can be fired quickly with this method, and I noticed barrel heat developed quickly.

Therefore, I stopped using this method.

 

[Hntndad]

I ‘used to’ fireform with the c.o.w. method. Bullseye or unique, cream of wheat and the mouth pushed into a bar of soap to seal it up good. Assemble one, shoot one- slowly done. Running a brush and cleaning the chamber every 10 rounds. Always got near 100% formed cases. Until... the borescope became affordable and you wouldn’t believe the fire cracking it caused in a freshly chambered barrel. Over 6 inches front the threat forward. That was years ago.
Best to make sure it’s chambered right and tight and just use max load of parent case. Never found the need to “jam it” to insure the case head holds tight against the bolt face. The neck-shoulder junction “should be” doing this just fine..

 

[Fast14riot]

When forming my 260AI brass, I just use a middle of the road charge and seating depth that shoots good. 44gr of H4831 and -.030 with a 140. No need to jamb or use heavy loads. I get nicely formed cases and can go to full charges after the first firing.

 

[RDavies]

Another simple option is to fireform your brass using Trailboss powder with the cheapest bullets you can find. With Trailboss, you run approx. 1/3rd of the normal charge, but since it is so bulky, it will still likely fill your case about 80%. Trailboss is extremely cool burning and you can fire your fire forming shots fairly rapidly without heating up the barrel and eroding the throat.
Since the bullets are only travelling at a fairly slow velocity with these Trailboss loads, they don't copper too badly when when running in. After your barrel has fired 100x fireforming shots, it will be fulling run in and settled down, but without eroding the throat.